Is this a hipaa violation?

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A patient I had died of a heart attack.

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

Yikes. You really have NO idea of what HIPAA is, do you? Am I the only one concerned that you are a NURSE and is so clueless about such an important topic?

My patient, a young male died of a heart attack due to a cocaine over dose, his mom fainted when she saw him while we continued cpr for another 20 minutes until she told us to stop. Am I closer to a hipaa violation rose?
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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

What is a "casual nurse"? If you're licensed as a nurse, working as a nurse, you're bound by HIPAA!

this is all hypothetical. my point is to see where hipaa starts and where it ends for the casual nurse. With social media, texts, pictures etc etc that never go away that can come back YEARS later we now live in a federal nightmare. If Jay Z comes to burger king I can tweet the world the he ordered a hot dog. But if I (THE NURSE) tweet Jay Z is at the hospital and I work there is that a violation? Is it a violation if someone tweeted that and they were in the waiting room at the time and saw him walk in?
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Specializes in Telemetry.
Yikes. You really have NO idea of what HIPAA is, do you? Am I the only one concerned that you are a NURSE and is so clueless about such an important topic?

Nope, I'm concerned as well.

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Depends on what you said, who you are, and who you are talking to.

A healthcare worker can only divulge protected health information (PHI) to someone who has a need to know to complete their job duties, unless you have permission from the patient. PHI includes patient identifiers and medical information that can be used to identify the patient. The people who need to know include other members of the healthcare team, health care plans, insurance companies, and the billing office. Incidental disclosures that happen during the course of treatment are allowed.

So, you can't tell Joe Blow off the street about Granny Grumpus's cholesterol level, because Joe Blow doesn't need to know.

You can tell the charge nurse about Granny's blood pressure if she is helping you resolve an urgent situation. You can tell the Case Manager specifics about Granny so she can be placed. You can tell Food Service what Granny's diet is.

You cannot tell Food Service anything about Granny Grumpus other than her diet because they don't need to know.

You cannot tell Granny Grumpus's granddaughter anything without permission from Granny, unless Granny is mentally incompetent and Granddaughter is the healthcare power of attorney.

If you are in semi private room and the roommate overhears the nurse talking to the patient about their care, that is not a HIPAA violation. That counts as an incidental disclosure. If two doctors discuss a case at the nurse's station and the nosy Nellie hanging out nearby overhears, that is not a HIPAA violation. If a group of people are talking about the patient while they are in the lunchroom and use patient identifiers, that is a big whopping violation.

So, in light of that, what do you think?

Do any of us need to know what is going on with your old patient to complete our job duties? Nope. Possible HIPAA violation if we can tell who the patient is from what you said.

Did you use any patient identifiers? Nope. Whew! Dodged that bullet.

So far, no HIPAA violation.

How do I know all this, do you ask? I was a graphic designer when HIPAA happened and I had to type dozens of the HIPAA privacy notices, complete with examples. I can still quote parts of that law verbatim.

If you want more information, you can ask your HIPAA compliance officer. To get the information straight from the source, go to HHS.gov and click on the HIPAA link that's right there on the front page.

Very good information. A number of nurses and other health care workers appear to have big gaps in knowledge about HIPAA.

Would you consider re-posting this as an article?

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No PHI

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Specializes in Critical care.
Yea, that's not a decision left up to a family member.

Yes it is.

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Specializes in EMT since 92, Paramedic since 97, RN and PHRN 2021.
Yes it is.

No, it's not, not at least until people are spoken to and things verified.

What if the person has cpr being done and the family member who wants it stopped just wants them out of the way for monetary gain.

If advanced directives are done that's one thing. But if I stopped resuscitative measures cause someone, other then the doctor, said stop I would lose my license faster then lawsuits could be filed.

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Specializes in Critical care.

Well duh, but if a family member tells the Dr. during a code to stop, we stop.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

Obviously there's a bit more to it, but generally when the next of kin decides the patient would no longer stop CPR we stop CPR. Are there places where you just say "too bad" and keep going?

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Specializes in ICU, Postpartum, Onc, PACU.
I may be wrong but I believe violations are determined based on what was said and not who was listening. Unless what you heard was specific enough that you could be sure it was your mother and not, as someone mentioned, another pt with the same circumstances, I would think there was no violation. Also in this situation I think it's a bit more complicated...assuming you had access to details about your mother's situation, either through staff or through her, that no one outside her family would have, AND those details are the only reason you realized it was your mother being discussed, that is a rather unique situation, especially if you didn't learn anything private that you didn't already know.

I do not believe the examples given are a violation. Also in this sort of environment I would naturally assume that many stories have some detail changed (I'm asking about interpreter behavior for my LOL who speaks only Chinese when really it was a teen boy who spoke Spanish...no one knows what is real and what is changed except me) or that some pts described are compiled from multiple real pts.

I was always taught that HIPAA violations involve IDENTIFYING info (name, DOB, very specific description of the person, etc) combined with medical info. Hence, I can dispose of an empty pill bottle belonging to a pt in the regular trash at the nsg station if I obliterate name etc, I do not need to also obliterate the name of the med or the instructions.

While I mostly agree with this, if you have a crazy situation that's a rare occurrence where you work/live, I think you should mind what you say even more. For instance, if there was a huge trauma including a mother and baby plus a drunk driver who'd been chased by the cops for miles while driving with his other arm nearly severed, you may want to watch where you talk about it cause everyone's local and it wouldn't be hard to deduce who or what you're talking about :nailbiting:

xo

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Specializes in EMT since 92, Paramedic since 97, RN and PHRN 2021.
Obviously there's a bit more to it, but generally when the next of kin decides the patient would no longer stop CPR we stop CPR. Are there places where you just say "too bad" and keep going?

See, this is the problem I have been having , thinking like a nurse instead of a medic. When we work a code , unless there are obvious signs of death(rigor, severe pooling) we don't stop unless the doctor tells us to stop. I have had times where people aren't in there right mind and think we are hurting their loved one by doing cpr and intubating and I ask is to stop. If there is no DNR we work them.

(Smacks side of head) gotta stop thinking like a medic!

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Specializes in med-surg, IMC, school nursing, NICU.

A question best left to the HIPAApomatus.

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