IS Gluttony a Disease or Choice?

[Katie5]

With so much brouhaha on obesity, is gluttony a disease or choice then?

I know exactly when I overeat- my stomach tells my I am full;

My brain sends me signals that I am full;

My sluggish rhythm tells me that I should stop.I know I should,

But I just have to have that last piece, so I would know it's gone and not be tempted again.Right?

So what better place to save the last piece than in my already capacity filled stomach:).Aaah, the food tastes so good.

Or I am feeling under the weather and having a pity-party of two, myself and food that is.

Food gives me a happy feeling (short-lived though) because I realise that when the pity-party is gone, I feel much worse when I can't fit into my clothes or I become more sluggish then when I first started.

That makes me feel much worse because now I've gone and done it -ruined the victory I had achieved in dealing with weight. So I feel sad all over again and resort to eating more perhaps that would help lift the blues that I feel right now from not fitting properly into my dress.

The blues lift (albeit temporarily) and I go to try my clothes again and feel much more worse, because the fit is even worse than before and then I feel the blues all over again and resort to food to make me feel better...you know the rest. It's a vicious cycle.

Oh wait(happy ending:), perhaps I can substitute something in its place, I'll go read a book, or maybe call a friend

Perhaps take a walk or maybe....Yeah right. I'd rather sit and have this last bite, it tastes so good.(Not so happy after all LO:rolleyes:L)

Is gluttony a choice or disease?

[Katie5]

Discussion is good and appropriate. However, the way this thread was presented it had a very condemning tone.

I am not arguing that healthy life style should not be discussed, but merely that fat people get this kind of attention way more than others because their "bad" habit is obvious to all vs. other nasty harmful habits that are not visibly apparent......

Former fatty context and all!

That crystal ball must be in overtime.The use of the term "I" is to indicate that the writer is also cuaght up in it.There's absolutely no condemnation here perhaps more of a catharsis in a way.

You do something you don't admire yourself for, yet feel helpless and do it.

[Katie5]

"Gluttony" is not a disease or a choice, it is a judgement. As we become more aware of the There are many areas in this country, many low income neighborhoods, where people do not have any access to any kind of food other than MacDonalds or the like. Food deserts.

When you are poor, and you never know when your next meal will be, and you do not have good food at hand, and no reliable transportation, you are going to eat whatever is available and you are going to eat a whole lot of it because you don't know when you will have another opportunity to eat.

It is almost a prisoner of war mentality, and over time people become conditioned to eat like that, even when they get into a situation where they have food. I sometimes wonder if it is that mentality that also leads a lot of low income people to smoke.

Factor in the reality that low income kids are relying on free school lunches that consist mainly of things like fried chicken nuggets and spaghetti with a side of fries and pie and you see this habits developing very early on in life.

These are habits that will continue on forever unless it is possible to break that cycle.

There was a time in my life when I was poor and because I grew up an environment where good eating habits were strongly encouraged, I found a way to stay away from the junk.

But I was obsessed with food and what was I going to eat to keep going. I tried shopping at the grocery store for healthy food and the reality was that for the price of what the ingredients of a healthy meal (vegetables, fruit, lean meat, etc.) I could buy ten boxes of Kraft macaroni and cheese. For the price of a tomato I could buy a week's worth of toilet paper.

.

So let's stop talking about gluttony.

I beg to differ, that is not entirely true. A meal at Mcdonald could cost you approximately 5dollars.A medium bag of rice costs approximately 3.50, to name just one. Weigh the options, 5dollar for one meal and 3.50 for several meals.You buy fruits and vegetables when in season and you get very good deals.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

I'm going to put a personal story out there that most people who think they know me best don't even know. I've struggled with my weight since about age 9 or 10. Currently I seesaw somewhere between 260 and 285 lbs. When I was 8, I started living with almost daily sexual assaults that lasted a grand total of about 4 years. I was living with those committing these acts, and I didn't have the courage to speak up until I was 13. Food became my solace. Even now, 20 years later, I turn to food when feeling down. I know it's bad for me, but it's a habit that, at least for me, is almost impossible to break. I try not to keep junky food in the house, although I allow myself one dessert per day- limited to a 100 calorie pack of chocolate covered pretzels. However, when I'm stressed I find myself eating larger portions- and it doesn't help that I live alone, and will usually cook more than one serving so that I can pack leftovers for lunch.

So I guess that to answer the OP's question, it's both. For me, I do the grocery shopping and have the choice to limit myself to healthy choices. On the other hand, I'm dealing with trying to change 20 years of learned poor eating choices that were reinforced by outside forces- crazy schedules that made it much easier to stop at McDonald's while driving from class to work, parents that used food as a reward, etc. I didn't choose to be overweight, it was more a less a side effect of trying to "fix" something else that wasn't right- my depression and lack of control over what was being done to me.

[greenfiremajick]

So rare. So not the affliction of the general populace.

And again, I ask...did our ancestors deal with this issue?

To those who advocate the physical disease theory: were there 400+ lb pilgrims? And if not, why not?

Or is obesity truly a lifestyle choice run amok?

Our ancestors were forced to work and run hard physically to obtain food that did not contain the preservatives, addictive substances and dyes in it....The overly processed and manufactured foods we are given to eat have real physical (and addictive like )effects upon our brains and bodies...So no, the ancestors did not have our problems....And no, there were most likely not any 400+ lb pilgrims....

Our ancestors also had physical makeups that were accustomed to stages of starving and now that modern day people have food available every day, they tend to pack on the weight more easily than our ancestors did.......

[Fribblet]

Our ancestors were forced to work and run hard physically to obtain food that did not contain the preservatives, addictive substances and dyes in it....The overly processed and manufactured foods we are given to eat have real physical (and addictive like )effects upon our brains and bodies...So no, the ancestors did not have our problems....And no, there were most likely not any 400+ lb pilgrims....

Care to back the bolded part up? Do people have psychological addiction to food? Sure, I buy that. Please tell me what exactly it is in food that creates a physical addiction.

[greenfiremajick]

Care to back the bolded part up? Do people have psychological addiction to food? Sure, I buy that. Please tell me what exactly it is in food that creates a physical addiction.

I really don't feel the need, as it's 1:30 in the morn....You could do some searches and find a wealth of info on how the substances in our foods affect ADD/ADHD kids, how certain chemicals, or additives spike the levels in our systems more intensely than regular sugar, how additives in our foods cause us to become the monkey hitting the red button obsessively, ignoring everything else besides the instant gratification/rush of the addictive substances, etc....I'll get back to you, tomorrow as I'm really tired...I'll provide real info, then....I am one tired puppy....

the whole idea/issue behind whether or not we should even be eating cooked food (as opposed to raw) is a whole another issue that'll take you by surprise!

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

OK, I'm going to weigh in here (pun intended) because this is a subject close to my heart, and I am heartily sick of listening to healthcare professionals pass judgment on obese individuals without knowing anything about what it is to like to live in a body that does not meet this society's ideal of health and beauty.

I won't bore you all with whining or excuses; as a former smoker, recovering alcoholic, AND lifelong food addict, I know plenty about taking responsibility for one's health. But what I haven't yet seen in this discussion is acknowledgement of the fact that while one can stop smoking/drinking/drugging/gambling/etc. forever, one can never stop eating. I challenge anyone who speaks of 'gluttons' to name me even one other addictive substance which the addict must continue to consume every day......lack of control over it is NOT simply a character defect!

That said, where compulsive overeaters go wrong is in using food to try to make up for some other real or perceived deficit in our lives. Sometimes, it's even more complicated than that: for example, during periods when my self-discipline is lacking and I don't care about feeding myself properly, I'll eat when I'm depressed AND when I'm happy. I eat when I'm stressed and anxious, and I eat when I'm contented and peaceful. I eat because the food tastes good. I eat because someone gave me food and I feel obligated to please them. I eat because it's a birthday, because it's a holiday, because I'm going through a bad patch and the food seems to fill an empty space. And sometimes I eat just because it's there.

I know all sorts of facts about nutrition (one of which is that a bag of plain white refined rice is no more nutritious than a bag of Oreos). I realize that I'm digging my own grave with a knife and fork. And yes, I'll work my way back into the "zone" where I'll be in control of my eating for a time.....maybe as long as a year or two, long enough to lose 50-70 lbs. but probably not long enough to shed all of the 200 lbs. that would bring me down to a 'normal' weight.

I also know how to beat an addiction---I've been sober for almost 19 years, smoke-free for even longer than that. However, I've been successful in no small part because I was able to walk away from booze and cigarettes. No one needs these things. But one does need regular meals to stay alive.

If I ever get the chance to have weight-loss surgery, I'm not going to hesitate for one minute longer than it takes to sign papers and let it be known that I will do whatever it takes to make it through the program. At this point, it's probably my only chance to lose enough weight to make a real difference in my long-term prognosis, which I realize isn't good. And given my lousy genetics (family members live into their 50s and 60s, and the ones who make it into the 70s get dementia) and my thirty-year battle with weight, my prospects for a long life grow dimmer every year that I stay morbidly obese.

And that, my friends, is not a matter of "choice". Who would choose to have a visible and disfiguring condition that makes him/her the object of social opprobrium, comedians' jokes, and scorn even from those who are supposed to help? I certainly didn't sign up for a life of struggling to fasten a seat belt....panicking when I become acutely SOB while tying my shoes......developing severe arthritis that makes weight loss even MORE difficult because I can't even climb a flight of stairs without pain.........taking up too much space in the world.

No, it's not anyone else's fault, and no, there's no one holding a gun to my head and forcing me to eat myself stupid. I merely ask those who so smugly and thoughtlessly condemn people like me to stop judging us by standards we can't possibly attain, and provide a safe place in health care for us to help ourselves. That's all.

[Nurse SMS, MSN, RN]

So rare. So not the affliction of the general populace.

And again, I ask...did our ancestors deal with this issue?

To those who advocate the physical disease theory: were there 400+ lb pilgrims? And if not, why not?

Or is obesity truly a lifestyle choice run amok?

This is a bit of a red herring, frankly. There weren't 400+ lb pilgrims because most of them were starving to death. The pilgrims died in droves from disease and starvation. It is in every history book written about them above a grade school level. Life as a pilgrim sucked.

I can say why I am not a fan of either one, disease or choice. Instead, I will say why I do wish to see both remain and grow.

I like the idea of it being a disease because that then will fuel more research to help those who have, for whatever reason, gotten into the unfortunate circumstance of being in a state of health that requires them to get outside of that state of health in order to regain good health. It is a vicious cycle and heartbreaking.

I like the idea of it being a choice because once we label something NOT a choice, all personal power goes away. I have been morbidly obese in my life. I am not any longer. I made a choice not to be. I also quit smoking and quit biting my fingernails - all things labeled "hard to break" habits that have a component of addiction or OCD connected to them. If I didn't believe it was possible to move on from these behaviors because my genetics said I couldn't, I would not have even tried. Fortunately I didn't believe that and I would not want others to either. Sadly, many who are obese see that opinion, that obesity and eating habits are a choice, as being one that condemns them for being "weak", that labels them as having a fundamental character flaw. I don't see it that way either.

The thinking that makes me cringe is when people either imply or interpret obesity as a fundamental character issue. If you write off the person as lazy, incompetent, self absorbed, etc.....where is the hope in that? What the morbidly obese (or even just the plain overweight) need to feel is a sense of hope. Hell, what EVERY patient needs to feel, regardless of their health condition, regardless of the personal behaviors that got them there, is that there is hope. That someone, somewhere, sees beyond the behaviors that lead to this condition and believes they have the power in them, genetics or choices or both, to make changes to improve the situation and that there are medical advances being made that will up the odds of beating it forever. So to me, it doesn't matter which it is. Neither one is easy and neither one leads to the path to salvation. We need the medical side. But patients MUST have the choice side remain as well. If we take away the option of choice, we take away their power. We take away the hope that it ever could be any different. I think it does a disservice to say it is just a disease and there is no cure. But it does just as much of a disservice to spit "You are making a choice!" out at them in a way that makes them feel condemned.

I feel if we can promote the idea of choice in a way that communicates hope, compassion and faith in the dignity of the human spirit residing inside this unhealthy body, we'll get a lot farther than just saying "stop shoving pie in your mouth". People like the idea of having power and feel worthy of it and capable of using it when supported in that journey of self discovery and self improvement. They don't like the idea of having had power and not used it and therefore they suck - which is the line of thinking they hear a LOT. That tends to make people, frankly, just give up.

If labeling it as a disease, whether it is or not, allows medical research and advancements take place that will make ending the cycle of self abuse that obesity ultimately is happen, I am all for it. And obviously I feel the idea of choice should never, ever go away. At this point in our society, the answer to the OPs question isn't as important as where we go from here. Even if it is a disease, it is one that can be beat behaviorally.

[greenfiremajick]

Viva-

I heartily agree with everything you've stated here...Yes, I too have been through every addiction out there and "beaten" every one of them, EXCEPT food. It is a daily battle. One must "dance with the devil" at least 3 times a day when a food addict. Ask any alcoholic to walk into a bar and drink 1/2 a beer 3 x's a day, or a drug addict to do just 1/2 a bump or line, etc 3 x's a day and see how well they can control their addiction....Food addiction has been the only addiction that ever truly scared me, because it made me feel powerless. I was afraid I couldn't beat it and yes, it was killing me, too. Diabetes, gout, diverticulitis, blood pressure, etc and so on....

Food addicts start out by being addicted mentally and emotionally but then become addicted to the "high" of their pleasure centers in the brain reacting to the intake of food. Dopamine and serotonin levels rise and change rapidly making the addict become physically addicted, as well.

That being said, I would like to tell you guys about the HCG Diet. I hate to use the word diet, but that's what it's called. I go to the gym, work out, etc but food and weight has been a lifelong issue ever since I was born premature and the doctor told my mother to feed me every 2 hours and she took that to the extreme...Anyway, have lost almost all my extra weight using the HCG Diet (That was 80 lbs!!!). In the 1st 24 hours, you lose anywhere from 7-11 lbs. After that, you lose anywhere from .5-1 lb per day. The HCG (it's a hormone) you put into your body, allows your body to live off of the extra fat in your system, further allowing one to eat a very low calorie diet. HCG works on the hypothalamus, causing one to just plain feel GOOD. Initially, I was skeptical because I was afraid it might be unhealthy, but indeed it was not for me, as well as thousands of others.

It has been a HUGE blessing.....If anyone's interested, you can PM me for the document from Dr Simeons, as well as the forum URL, etc.

OK, I'm going to weigh in here (pun intended) because this is a subject close to my heart, and I am heartily sick of listening to healthcare professionals pass judgment on obese individuals without knowing anything about what it is to like to live in a body that does not meet this society's ideal of health and beauty.

I won't bore you all with whining or excuses; as a former smoker, recovering alcoholic, AND lifelong food addict, I know plenty about taking responsibility for one's health. But what I haven't yet seen in this discussion is acknowledgement of the fact that while one can stop smoking/drinking/drugging/gambling/etc. forever, one can never stop eating. I challenge anyone who speaks of 'gluttons' to name me even one other addictive substance which the addict must continue to consume every day......lack of control over it is NOT simply a character defect!

That said, where compulsive overeaters go wrong is in using food to try to make up for some other real or perceived deficit in our lives. Sometimes, it's even more complicated than that: for example, during periods when my self-discipline is lacking and I don't care about feeding myself properly, I'll eat when I'm depressed AND when I'm happy. I eat when I'm stressed and anxious, and I eat when I'm contented and peaceful. I eat because the food tastes good. I eat because someone gave me food and I feel obligated to please them. I eat because it's a birthday, because it's a holiday, because I'm going through a bad patch and the food seems to fill an empty space. And sometimes I eat just because it's there.

I know all sorts of facts about nutrition (one of which is that a bag of plain white refined rice is no more nutritious than a bag of Oreos). I realize that I'm digging my own grave with a knife and fork. And yes, I'll work my way back into the "zone" where I'll be in control of my eating for a time.....maybe as long as a year or two, long enough to lose 50-70 lbs. but probably not long enough to shed all of the 200 lbs. that would bring me down to a 'normal' weight.

I also know how to beat an addiction---I've been sober for almost 19 years, smoke-free for even longer than that. However, I've been successful in no small part because I was able to walk away from booze and cigarettes. No one needs these things. But one does need regular meals to stay alive.

If I ever get the chance to have weight-loss surgery, I'm not going to hesitate for one minute longer than it takes to sign papers and let it be known that I will do whatever it takes to make it through the program. At this point, it's probably my only chance to lose enough weight to make a real difference in my long-term prognosis, which I realize isn't good. And given my lousy genetics (family members live into their 50s and 60s, and the ones who make it into the 70s get dementia) and my thirty-year battle with weight, my prospects for a long life grow dimmer every year that I stay morbidly obese.

And that, my friends, is not a matter of "choice". Who would choose to have a visible and disfiguring condition that makes him/her the object of social opprobrium, comedians' jokes, and scorn even from those who are supposed to help? I certainly didn't sign up for a life of struggling to fasten a seat belt....panicking when I become acutely SOB while tying my shoes......developing severe arthritis that makes weight loss even MORE difficult because I can't even climb a flight of stairs without pain.........taking up too much space in the world.

No, it's not anyone else's fault, and no, there's no one holding a gun to my head and forcing me to eat myself stupid. I merely ask those who so smugly and thoughtlessly condemn people like me to stop judging us by standards we can't possibly attain, and provide a safe place in health care for us to help ourselves. That's all.

[PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN]

actually and more accurate, people just LOVE drama...and however that manifests itself.

and while i 'think' you and i have the same type of outlook, i do understand the 'power' of words and conduct myself accordingly...most times.

leslie

They also love the "holier than thou" and "how dare you."

Eh, whatever. Get over yourself, I say.

And sometimes, their buttons are pushed because underneath it all--they probably feel the insecurity about the issue themselves...hence, many people who are offended with the word "gluttony."

It's just a word...how you interpret it, is your problem and issue.

[PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN]

No, she isn't asking a valid question. She wrote a post intended to make fun of a certain type of patient, and she's far from a comedian. I'm sure she'd love to know that while she was spread open like a chicken wing during an A&P procedure a group of nurses were making fun of what shape her lady parts was in. Hilarious.

It's valid to me, as I am not offended. I once weighed 200 pounds---something my small frame couldn't handle--after pregnancy and eating myself to that weight, I felt horrid.

But I persisted and got rid of it...it wasn't easy and it wasn't fast, but I did it.

So...having been that weight and everyone having told me for about two years "what happened to you?" Eh, I got fat.

It's the truth. Was I hurt? Not really.....I was fat. . And I was a glutton...and I embraced it...

Whatever...

And I wasn't in a hurry to lose the weight no matter what anyone said, especially MY MODEL THINK MOTHER.

So...

I tuned everyone out and lived my life.

According to MY standards and according to MY timeline.

Eventually I lost it--got kudos for it. I didn't care so much for the kudos.

I "ku-doed" myself the whole time--fat or thin. I think it has to do with really liking who I am---whatever my size.

J

[PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN]

Care to back the bolded part up? Do people have psychological addiction to food? Sure, I buy that. Please tell me what exactly it is in food that creates a physical addiction.

Sugar..is totally an addiction.

and Caffeine.

I cut out both and noticed that once I cut out the sugar (especially processed) I no longer craved sweet desserts.

As for the caffeine, I am an addict and that's the way it's gonna roll....