Is anyone at all concerned that the leader of the free world...against all recommendations...is taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure...despite having high cholesterol?
Or that a doctor felt OK prescribing such to the leader of the free world despite said concerns? I mean HOLY COW!?!?!? How many will be banging down doors now to follow suit???
Quote
Several doctors questioned the wisdom of taking the unproven drug, given the possible risks.
“I think it’s a very bad idea to be taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventive medication,” said Dr. Eric Topol, a cardiologist and the director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, Calif. “There are no data to support that, there’s no evidence, and in fact there is no compelling evidence to support its use at all at this point.”
Dr. Topol said that the risk of developing a potentially fatal arrhythmia because of hydroxychloroquine could come without warning and did not happen only in people with heart conditions. “We can’t predict that; in fact, it can happen in people who are healthy,” he said. “It could happen in anyone.”
Dr. David Maron, a cardiologist and the chief of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, said in an interview that in his opinion “the risk-benefit ratio doesn’t make sense.”
Are there NO repercussions for this kind of insanity??? Sorry...but WOW!!. Am good and would get the hell out of this field if I could for sooo many reasons right now...but opening a restaurant right now is out and that's what I'd wanna do...rofl.
OK...I can't leave it alone. The interview with Wallace was HORRIFYING. It's basic math....and this whole thing is absolutely surreal. Our patients are well and truly screwed on a national level if covid gets worse...and I expect it will. Would love to be wrong.
When he said eventually he will be right about covid going away and children with covid are nothing more than colds and they'll get over it in a day so they need to be in school I had to walk out of the room to keep from breaking my TV. So what about the children with juvenile diabetes, asthma, leukemia, high risk parents/grandparents at home, etc? I couldn't take it.
Hold up, let me add the poster they made him saying we had the lowest covid cases and deaths. Are they literally doing and saying any and everything to stroke his ego? No wonder we're in this predicament!
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We are no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back”
Carl Sagan
Great quote! Certainly feels like these times are a living testament to that truth. ?
Well, you can’t help those who have no interest. I think this speaks to the pathetic education system we now have. We have touted for a long time that the US was best in everything and now we’re finding out the truth. We lived off of our post war successes without actually innovating ourselves but just the same old same old US arrogance and now we are paying the price. Sorry if this was a rant.
Even scarier to me are some of the messages on this thread. Nurses are SUPPOSED to have and value critical thinking. Yet there are about 3-5 people who seem to live to defy that. Did Don the Con tell them that critical thinking is a hoax or something?
One person was even posting the national review and Alex Jones as sources for evaluating medication effectiveness , for Heavensakes...
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
12 minutes ago, SabioUno said:
Even scarier to me are some of the messages on this thread. Nurses are SUPPOSED to have and value critical thinking. Yet there are about 3-5 people who seem to live to defy that. Did Don the Con tell them that critical thinking is a hoax or something?
One person was even posting the national review and Alex Jones as sources for evaluating medication effectiveness , for Heavensakes...
IMV this is evidence that we are dealing with an actual cult. Every cult has their measure of otherwise educated and intelligent people. The Trump cult is no different.
The GOP facilitated a right wing media presence over the last 20 years. They carefully fed their conservative base increasingly uncompromising, intolerant and angry rhetoric making liberal ideology the boogie man for the simple thinkers. Now that indoctrinated group is devoted to a man, not the ideology that the GOP found useful.
IMV this is evidence that we are dealing with an actual cult. Every cult has their measure of otherwise educated and intelligent people. The Trump cult is no different.
The GOP facilitated a right wing media presence over the last 20 years. They carefully fed their conservative base increasingly uncompromising, intolerant and angry rhetoric making liberal ideology the boogie man for the simple thinkers. Now that indoctrinated group is devoted to a man, not the ideology that the GOP found useful.
More like 35 years. At least. I remember Don saying he deliberately sought the Republican ticket because their voters were more gullible and easy to manipulate. No kidding. The work was already done for him. But I'm sure he's the greatest, biggest, bestest at it ever.
As for the rest, were it done for something less than an indebted charlatan, it might have been a good thing that the cult changed from Republican ideology to one of adulating of a personality. It's not like the GOP every did anything to help white rural blue collar workers. At least not unless you think trading their employment rights, health insurance, retirement benefits, educational grants, consumer protections, safe infrastructure is somehow good for them.
Just to be clear...the topic here is not hydrochloroquinine (and if you're going to rant about a medication...get the med right). The topic was that a man who appears to have narcissistic personality disorder and less self restraint than a small child is mismanaging pandemic responses. As a figure of influence (for God knows what reason) has a responsibility to let those in science and medicine guide him...not to jump the gun and endorse medications or medical processes that are not yet proven or endorsed for widespread use by experts in the field. I never cared if he took it...he just had NO business jumping in FRONT of science and announcing his beliefs as if they are fact to the lemmings that follow him. He's done it repeatedly...on multiple fronts...wearing masks, the value of testing, etc. Even if HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE was the holy grail for covid...his behavior was...and continues to be... frightening for those of us that believe in science and the historically proven, evidence based processes that it relies on.
So I'm sorry if you somehow misread the point of the topic. Holy crap concerned because we are medical...and science is being pushed to one side.
And ps...plaquenil is not and never was completely off the table...but haa had issues and needed to be slowed down to find out where reality lies. Just because a med is safe in one situation doesn't mean it's safe for all...which, if you were medical, you would know...(Try giving a good dose of regular insulin to someone who's not diabetic but has a heart condition or vice versa. Different disease processes need different meds and meds are NOT safe for all just because they are safe for one. We've screwed that up in the past ~significantly~ and jumped the gun on use to our own detriment. We don't need to repeat those mistakes.)
The topic was and is concern for safe and effective pandemic response based on science and whether or not we are, as medical professionals are concerned. If you'd like to focus solely on a specific medication...please feel free to start your own thread.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
6 hours ago, ladycody said:
Just to be clear...the topic here is not hydrochloroquinine (and if you're going to rant about a medication...get the med right). The topic was that a man who appears to have narcissistic personality disorder and less self restraint than a small child is mismanaging pandemic responses. Even if HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE was the holy grail for covid...his behavior was...and continues to be... frightening for those of us that believe in science and the historically proven, evidence based processes that it relies on.
So I'm sorry if you somehow misread the point of the topic. Holy crap concerned because we are medical...and science is being pushed to one side.
And ps...plaquenil is not and never was completely off the table...but haa had issues and needed to be slowed down to find out where reality lies.
Thank you for the spelling correction and an extra helping of condescension. As someone who is concerned about "science," you are correct that Plaquenil is not off the table. It has shown promise in some circumstances and warrants further investigation. That is what I have been saying all along.
I advise you to study the U.S. Constitution. We happen to have free speech in this country. I am also not aware of any laws or regulations that only healthcare providers are allowed to have and express an opinion on healthcare topics, including medication. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
Personally, I don't give a rat's a** what Trump says about any medication. He is entitled to his opinion. I don't make clinical decisions based on what any politician says. I practice evidence-based medicine.
I'm just sick of all the hysteria about Trump. Next, some people will start claiming his farts are the key factor that will tip the planet over the edge to catastrophic climate change.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
15 minutes ago, FullGlass said:
Thank you for the spelling correction and an extra helping of condescension. As someone who is concerned about "science," you are correct that Plaquenil is not off the table. It has shown promise in some circumstances and warrants further investigation. That is what I have been saying all along.
I advise you to study the U.S. Constitution. We happen to have free speech in this country. I am also not aware of any laws or regulations that only healthcare providers are allowed to have and express an opinion on healthcare topics, including medication. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
Personally, I don't give a rat's a** what Trump says about any medication. He is entitled to his opinion. I don't make clinical decisions based on what any politician says. I practice evidence-based medicine.
I'm just sick of all the hysteria about Trump. Next, some people will start claiming his farts are the key factor that will tip the planet over the edge to catastrophic climate change.
Regardless, the thread is about the concern over the dangerous and reckless statements and posturing by the president. Your irritation about the topic is irrelevant and can be resolved by ignoring the comments.
Because while the man, Donald J Trump may well be entitled to his free speech, he is also at least as accountable as Colin Kaepernick. Right?
In terms of making professional decisions based upon political feelings or beliefs, have you come up with something to support your belief that patients are suffering because their health professional hates Trump? I recall that you expressed some concern that the drug want being used because of hate for Trump...right?
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
35 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Regardless, the thread is about the concern over the dangerous and reckless statements and posturing by the president. Your irritation about the topic is irrelevant and can be resolved by ignoring the comments.
Because while the man, Donald J Trump may well be entitled to his free speech, he is also at least as accountable as Colin Kaepernick. Right?
In terms of making professional decisions based upon political feelings or beliefs, have you come up with something to support your belief that patients are suffering because their health professional hates Trump? I recall that you expressed some concern that the drug want being used because of hate for Trump...right?
1. So why don't you ignore my comments and practice what you preach?
2. What's Kaepernick got to do with this?
3. Again, you ask for evidence, yet fail to provide any of your own to support your own positions. Do you know how to do research?
However, I will humor you and provide both logic and evidence.
Logic: The mainstream media and much of the medical establishment was very incensed that Trump touted Plaquenil and were very quick to condemn use of this medication for COVID, before there was enough time to conduct conclusive research. This is going to discourage a lot of prescribers from writing for this. And it was pretty obvious that this condemnation was politically motivated, so it is reasonable to conclude a lot of providers did not use Plaquenil when it might have been helpful.
Evidently, people on this thread think that providers are incapable of making their own decisions and rely on the opinion of politicians as to medication effectiveness, so by that standard, providers are going to go along with what the mainstream media and much of the medical establishment says. Can't have it both ways.
Evidence: It is common for medications to be prescribed for off-label use. Plaquenil for COVID is such a case.
1. The FDA revoked emergency authorization for Plaquenil for COVID, before any conclusive research.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
7 hours ago, ladycody said:
And ps...plaquenil is not and never was completely off the table...but haa had issues and needed to be slowed down to find out where reality lies. Just because a med is safe in one situation doesn't mean it's safe for all...which, if you were medical, you would know...(Try giving a good dose of regular insulin to someone who's not diabetic but has a heart condition or vice versa. Different disease processes need different meds and meds are NOT safe for all just because they are safe for one.
You're not a provider. I am. It is very common for medications to be prescribed for "off label" uses. Prescribing Plaquenil for COVID is such an instance. We know the common, rare, and serious side effects of this medication, and providers know how to monitor for this. It is done all the time with other medications. For example, anti-seizure medications are commonly prescribed for psychosis, bipolar disorder, and even severe depression. Many of these medications can have very serious side effects and patients must be monitored carefully. That doesn't mean we stop using them.
"No excess risk of SAEs was identified when 30-day hydroxychloroquine and sulfasalazine use were compared. SCCS confirmed these findings. However, when azithromycin was added to hydroxychloroquine, we observed an increased risk of 30-day cardiovascular mortality (CalHR2.19 [1.22-3.94]), chest pain/angina (CalHR 1.15 [95% CI 1.05-1.26]), and heart failure (CalHR 1.22 [95% CI 1.02-1.45]) Conclusions: Short-term hydroxychloroquine treatment is safe, but addition of azithromycin may induce heart failure and cardiovascular mortality, potentially due to synergistic effects on QT length. We call for caution if such combination is to be used in the management of Covid-19"
You're not a provider. I am. It is very common for medications to be prescribed for "off label" uses. Prescribing Plaquenil for COVID is such an instance. We know the common, rare, and serious side effects of this medication, and providers know how to monitor for this. It is done all the time with other medications. For example, anti-seizure medications are commonly prescribed for psychosis, bipolar disorder, and even severe depression. Many of these medications can have very serious side effects and patients must be monitored carefully. That doesn't mean we stop using them.
Ooooh. Ouch....rofl.
My point exactly. It's still available for "off label" use (which I'm well aware of...thanks)....so there's really no problem....RIGHT? Which means it's on the providers to determine if useful...and if they screw up by rushing things...it's on them...which with a new and unproven med...is reasonable. Find another venue.
NurseBlaq
1,756 Posts
When he said eventually he will be right about covid going away and children with covid are nothing more than colds and they'll get over it in a day so they need to be in school I had to walk out of the room to keep from breaking my TV. So what about the children with juvenile diabetes, asthma, leukemia, high risk parents/grandparents at home, etc? I couldn't take it.
Hold up, let me add the poster they made him saying we had the lowest covid cases and deaths. Are they literally doing and saying any and everything to stroke his ego? No wonder we're in this predicament!