Intravenous meds and medical assistants

Published

How can I found out which states allow medical assitants to give IV medications?

Originally posted by Trishikins

And I'd be happy to finish up my nursing school. Care to pay my rent and make my car payments? :D

Nope. You can work your way through and make your own payments, just like I did. It wasn't easy, but it was doable and I did it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Originally posted by Brownms46

All of the following take an exam, and are licensed as required by the state they practice in;

Real Estate Appraisal

Auditors

Construction Laborers

Claims Adjusters, Examiners, and Investigators Computer Hardware Engineers

Court Reporters

Drywall Installers

And the list goes on, so your point is???

So are people who drive cars but they aren't licensed to practice NURSING are they? What is YOUR point? :confused: This is NURSING we are discussing NOT carpentry.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Everything except surgery.
Originally posted by Speculating

Certifications are certifications and licenses are licenses. CNA's are certified for that matter so are accountants! :nono:

NOOO the question is what was the point here!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Everything except surgery.
Originally posted by Sekar

No actually it isn't the same thing at all. The squabbling between LPN/ADN/BSN is the elitism you like to zero in on. The difference is that LPNs are Licensed Nurses, ADN RNs are Licensed Nurses, BSN RNs are are Licenses Nurses, CMAs are NOT Licensed Nurses. Again, as I stated earlier, some states make it legal to dump toxic chemicals into rivers. So since it is legal to do so it must be a good thing, right? :rolleyes:

You are not the only one who works with CMAs, I work with them everyday. They have been trained in different states, over the last 10 years and NONE of them have any pharmacology training whatsoever. But leaglly they can pass under the physician's license. Legal? Yes. Safe? No way. I finally convinced THe Physician how at risk his medical license was with that practice and now only Nurses give medications in our clinic. My concern is not the superiority of Nurses, put patient safety.

I never said they were licensed nurses, please read what I posted. And please read the posted link of what they will need to have to be recertified again! There was a time when LPNs didn't have pharmacology either! In fact many LPN programs and RN programs have changed greatly over the years!

And just having a "licensed" nurse doesn't make the patient any safer then CMAs who do have pharmacology, A &P, Pathology, Disease Process, and a host of other educational courses, they do today! And I will say again, the CMAs I have worked with, can work with me, ...anytime! And if the CMAs you work with didn't have pharmacology, I'm wondering if they're actually Certified by the AMA??

Things change, and just as the scope of practice, and education of RN, and LPNS have changed over the years, so has the education, and scope of practice of CMAs changed. In fact in one year, it will be a requirement of the CMA certification to have IV therapy, depending on the state requirements in the area they work in.:D

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Everything except surgery.

You know for all the concern supposedly for pt safely, why aren't those who say they're concerned, start advocationg for the pts in facilities where NA, not even CNAs are giving medications, including narcotics???

There are places where NA, those who walked off the street, are actually passiing medications, and giving PRN in too many facilities, and have NO clue as to what they're giving out! Those are the people who concern me, not the CMAs!

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I agree that medications should be given by nurses but I also have something to share.

I worked in an assisted living facility before going to nursing school and they had "medication aids" that gave all the medications. no training was required before giving the meds. all the residents medications were kept in a central area and the medication aid would get them ready for a pass at certain times and go to the residents rooms and give them the medications to take. this even included narcs. yes, there were narcs and the med aid had the only key to get them out. and they passed them without any formal training. they had a med book to refer to if they wanted to know what the meds were but that wasn't required either. there was no crash cart and no acls medications in the facility. at the time i didn't realize how unsafe this was but i do now. there was a nurse on duty during the days but only sometimes. and he/she didn't pass any of the meds. but at night it was only the med aid in the facility for staff. crazy now to look back on.

this was in oregon by the way.

just thought i would share because it seems that meds aren't always as controlled as they should be.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Everything except surgery.

CougRN, I acknowledge your disagreement about only nurses giving medicatons. But I find it scarely that so much is made about those who at least have a formal education background, and some accountability, but the elderly, the mentally challenged, disabled, are allowed to be so poorly cared for!

This is the area I feel there should be some outrage, about what is happening to those who can't speak up for themselves. In an MD's office, a CMA has an MD right there. However in these AL, LTC, and other facilities, there is not such protection for those who are receiving medications, from people who have NO training, or any understanding of what they're giving!

I recently read a BON practice act, that allowed for the "workers" to be given min education on medications, and then held them accountable if they were the ones responsible for giving the daily care!!!!

I also worked in two of these places! In both of these places, I was totally unaware that the practice was even happening, until I saw it! One was a short local contract, with no orientation, and as after working one nite I canceled the contract! I found out they were giving out ATIVAN, and XANAX!!!! I made them stop for that nite, and then I was out of there!

Second place was a per diem, my first ever in Washington state. I was told by the aides, I had been bought in as the facility, had the state coming in. The NAs, not CNAs were scared, and rightly so, that they were being forced to give residents medications, and if they refused they were fired! And since this was a very rural area, and most of these NAs were on welfare, they wanted to keep their jobs, but were afraid to, and afraid not to!

They were told they would be trained, but in the process of being "trained", they were supposed to still give meds, and look up the meds they didn't know!!! In fact the person who I had relieved, and counted narcs with, turned out not to be a NURSE at all!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in MS Home Health.

Trauma that is some scarey stuff.

renerian

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I am an EMT intermediate, and here in Oregon anyway, I can start IV's, and give some meds.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Originally posted by Brownms46

CougRN, I acknowledge your disagreement about only nurses giving medicatons. But I find it scarely that so much is made about those who at least have a formal education background, and some accountability, but the elderly, the mentally challenged, disabled, are allowed to be so poorly cared for!

This is the area I feel there should be some outrage, about what is happening to those who can't speak up for themselves. In an MD's office, a CMA has an MD right there. However in these AL, LTC, and other facilities, there is not such protection for those who are receiving medications, from people who have NO training, or any understanding of what they're giving!

I recently read a BON practice act, that allowed for the "workers" to be given min education on medications, and then held them accountable if they were the ones responsible for giving the daily care!!!!

I also worked in two of these places! In both of these places, I was totally unaware that the practice was even happening, until I saw it! One was a short local contract, with no orientation, and as after working one nite I canceled the contract! I found out they were giving out ATIVAN, and XANAX!!!! I made them stop for that nite, and then I was out of there!

Second place was a per diem, my first ever in Washington state. I was told by the aides, I had been bought in as the facility, had the state coming in. The NAs, not CNAs were scared, and rightly so, that they were being forced to give residents medications, and if they refused they were fired! And since this was a very rural area, and most of these NAs were on welfare, they wanted to keep their jobs, but were afraid to, and afraid not to!

They were told they would be trained, but in the process of being "trained", they were supposed to still give meds, and look up the meds they didn't know!!! In fact the person who I had relieved, and counted narcs with, turned out not to be a NURSE at all!!!

Brownie! I am quite shocked! Suddenly you perform an about face here. Why is it OK for one group of unlicensed assistive personnel with minimal to no pharmacology training (CMAs) to give administer medications and not the other (Med Techs)? The law states that these "Med Techs" can administer medications, therefore they meet the same criteria you set forth for CMAs. If the law says it is OK for "med techs" to administer medications than it is safe for the patients, right? I mean that IS the argument you presented for why you feel CMAs should administer medications. Or does that only apply to the CMAs? If so, Why? Because there is a Physician somewhere in the building for the CMA? Isn't the phone good enough? After all these LTCs have a physician on call. The Med Tech can pick up the phone and call for assistance when things go wrong. Sounds dangerous, doesn't it? Is it because CMAs have pharmacology training and med techs don't? WRONG. Not all CMA programs offer pharmacology training and many med techs receive the same minimal amount of training as that one CMA program you listed. The Board of Nursing in all states regulates the practice of nursing. The scope of practice for nurses is set for each state by that state's BON. There is no across the board standard for either CMAs or Med Techs, no governing body, no regulatory agency. In some states no agency truly regulates the practice of CMAs and med techs. In some states they are requlated by the either Medical Board (loosely) of the Department of Facilites and Services. Who is charge here? The individual Phycians? The Long Term Care facilities? GIVE ME A BREAK.

THIS is why I feel that a Nursing License should be the minimum standard for administering medications. Why do the patients in a medical office deserve any less protection than those in a LTC? Many of patients in the clinic I work at are just this side of a LTC. I have worked in both clinics and LTCs, and Nurses are needed in both. CMAs and Med Techs, in my book, are the same thing when it comes to administering medications. A cost cutting, dangerous practice started to save money by not paying to have a Nurse on hand. The laws were changed to allow the physicians and LTCs to replace Nurses with less trained, less qualified, unlicensed personnel. I don't see how you can advocate one and then curse the other as dangerous. That is a double standard.

Both CMAs and CNAs (what a med tech would be who isn't passing meds) are trained professionals and vital to health care. They both have their role in health care and I don't want to see either one disappear. I just don't think either group has any business administering medications of any sort. Leave that dangerous job to those who are properly trained and licensed for it, Nurses.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

kudos Sekar

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Originally posted by Sekar

Brownie! I am quite shocked! Suddenly you perform an about face here. Why is it OK for one group of unlicensed assistive personnel with minimal to no pharmacology training (CMAs) to give administer medications and not the other (Med Techs)? ...

*sigh*

one more time...

Certified Medical Assistants (CMA) DO have pharmacology training (and A&P and some pathophys).

And just like a person can not call them selves a nurse unless they have an RN or LPN a person can not call themself a CMA unless they have met the training requirements, taken and passed the certification exam.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion