Intravenous meds and medical assistants

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Oct 25, 2003

Originally posted by Quita
I am a certified medical assistant and I must say we go to school just as long as LPN's ,so why shouldn't we be able to give injections. LPN's and medical assistant's have basically the same duties on their job and get paid about the same thing so why shouldn't we give injections.

My LPN program (including prereqs) was three years long, full time.

As an LPN, I was charge nurse on a wing of LTC facility, did all meds, tx assessments, interventions for 65 residents on nocs. I supervised 3 CNAs.

I had two trached pts w/ MRSA, and 9 tube feeders. This is a far cry from what MAs are trained to do.

I'm an RN now.

Sekar · Oct 25, 2003

Originally posted by kids-r-fun
*sigh*
one more time...

Certified Medical Assistants (CMA) DO have pharmacology training (and A&P and some pathophys).
And just like a person can not call them selves a nurse unless they have an RN or LPN a person can not call themself a CMA unless they have met the training requirements, taken and passed the certification exam.

DOUBLE SIGH! As I stated before, not ALL CMA programs offer pharmacology training. Some programs do offer it, so do not offer it. No across the board standard. A program listed by Brownie did offer pharmacology. The program listed below allows students to sit the exam for the CMA exam and offers NO pharmacology training. Yet once they start working in a physician's office they can start administering medications. Yeah, that's safe.

Medical Assisting Certificate

Major Code: MDAST-VC

CIP: 0317050300

This program is designed to prepare the student for employment in physician's offices, clinics and ambulatory centers. Upon satisfactory completion of all program requirements, the student will receive a diploma and is eligible to become a member of the American Registry of Medical Assistants (ARMA). Upon successful program completion, the student is eligible to take the national examination of the American Association of Medical Assistants (AAMA) to become a Certified Medical Assistant (CMA). Students are eligible to take the HRS State certification examination for basic x-ray machine operator licensure.

The Medical Assistant program is accredited by the Commission of Accreditation of Allied Health Education Programs (CAAHEP) on recommendation of the Committee of Accreditation for Medical Assistants Education.

This is a limited access program. Candidates must: (a) apply and be accepted to Seminole Community College; (b) provide official transcript indicating successful completion of high school or GED; © be at least 17 years of age; and (d) complete the Test of Adult Basic Education (TABE) and achieve minimum scores of: Reading - 10.0, Language - 10.0, and Math - 10.0. Students may be admitted with TABE scores of 8.0 or above, but will be required to remediate at the CORE lab and achieve scores of 10.0 prior to graduation from the Medical Assisting Certificate Program. (Recommended: Basic Keyboarding and some computer skills.) All students entering a healthcare program with a clinical component will be required to complete a criminal background check. Students must be free of offenses which could potentially disqualify them from working in a healthcare environment (Florida Statute 400.211). Admission into clinicals is at the discretion of the clinical agencies. Total program hours: 1,300

Major Courses

HSC0003 Health Science CORE 90

MEA0500 Medical Office Receptionist 100

MEA0560 Medical Assisting I 250

MEA0520 Phlebotomist 75

MEA0540 EKG Aide 75

MEA0565 Medical Assisting II 280

MEA0801 Medical Assisting Externship 330

MEA0258 Basic X-Ray 100

Total Credits: 43.32

Notes: This curriculum includes courses which will allow students to complete the following Occupational Completion Points: Medical Receptionist HSC0003 Health Science CORE: 90 hrs MEA0500 Medical Office Receptionist: 100 hrs Phlebotomist HSC0003 Health Science CORE: 90 hrs MEA0520 Phlebotomist: 75 hrs EKG Aide HSC0003 Health Science CORE: 90 hrs MEA0540 EKG Aide: 75 hrs Medical Assisting MSC0003 Health Science CORE: 90 hrs MEA0500 Medical Office Receptionist: 100 hrs MEA0560 Medical Assisting I: 250 hrs MEA0520 Phlebotomist: 75 hrs MEA0540 EKG Aide: 75 hrs MEA0565 Medical Assisting II: 280 hrs MEA0801 Medical Assisting Externship: 330 hrs MEA0258 Basic X-Ray: 100 hrs Total vocational contact hours: 1300 hrs This program has been updated, so it differs from the printed 2003-2004 catalog.

kids · Oct 25, 2003

Originally posted by Sekar
As I stated before, not ALL CMA programs offer pharmacology training. Some programs do offer it, so do not offer it. No across the board standard. A program listed by Brownie did offer pharmacology. The program listed below allows students to sit the exam for the CMA exam and offers NO pharmacology training...

Many programs do not include classes titled pharmacology instead they incorporate meds in the relevent area of study, as my daughters program does. (The ADN program I graduated from did not include a class titled pharmacology either).

The CMA exam covers pharmacology and med administration:

http://www.aama-ntl.org/ed/edpdf.html (specificly Certification and Recertification>>>Content Outline).

Also, you have to complete an CAAHEP accredited program to be eligible to take the certification exam. Many accredited programs offer an AAS degree.

http://caahep.org/caahep/programs.asp

Speculating · Oct 25, 2003

Even the curriculum that Brownie herself presented had only one pharm class 5 credits. I don't know about you guys, but I feel safe with somebody passing and pushing meds with something like 4hrs.of pharm a week for 4 months not to mention zero clinicals :uhoh3: The curriculum had something like 6 classes that had anything to do with medicine and about fifteen in none medical areas such as terminology, computers, insurance stuff... I worked, like many nursing students, fulltime and went to school fulltime as well as working every weekend for over four years to get my RN. I think what really upsets me here are the few people that come on board representing CMAs and remotely try to compare are educations and say they wear similar shoes with similar responsibilities is thoroughly insulting.

Sekar · Oct 25, 2003

Originally posted by kids-r-fun
Many programs do not include classes titled pharmacology instead they incorporate meds in the relevent area of study, as my daughters program does. (The ADN program I graduated from did not include a class titled pharmacology either).

The CMA exam covers pharmacology and med administration:
http://www.aama-ntl.org/ed/edpdf.html (specificly Certification and Recertification>>>Content Outline).

Also, you have to complete an CAAHEP accredited program to be eligible to take the certification exam. Many accredited programs offer an AAS degree.
http://caahep.org/caahep/programs.asp

Even if the pharmacology training is incorporated into other areas, such as Endocrinology or Medical Assisting II, the total available hours of pharmacology training should still be broken out and available for review as the amount of pharmacology training available on the course syllabus. I used to teach Nursing School and we had both a dedicated pharmacology course and pharmacology training incorporated into system reviews, but the hours listed on transcripts included the total of both. It would seem that the same should apply here. Higher education is higher education, as far as transcripts and credits apply. If it isn't listed for credit, it isn't taught. That is what the State BON always held us to as standard. Perhaps that varies by state or by education instution. Of the two dozen CMA courses I reviewed today, in 10 different states, only half offered any documented pharmacology training and those that did averaged a mere 3 hours. As I stated earlier, little to no pharmacology training.

I reviewed the file on the test, and it does test for a limited amount of information for 50 drugs based off a drug list available on the internet. The data tested, according to the links available, is woefully inadequate to prepare someone responsibility of administering medications. There is far more to administering medications that following the 5 rights and doing your 3 way checks. I still stand by my arguments that CMAs (both Certified Medical Assitants and Certified Medication Assistants or Med Techs) should not be administering medications for the plethora of reasons I have repeatedly listed in this forum.

fab4fan · Oct 25, 2003

Originally posted by Quita

I am a certified medical assistant and I must say we go to school just as long as LPN's ,so why shouldn't we be able to give injections. LPN's and medical assistant's have basically the same duties on their job and get paid about the same thing so why shouldn't we give injections.

Uhm, no, you don't have the same duties.

kids · Oct 25, 2003

Then by your reasoning I received "little to no pharmacology" in the accredited ADN program I graduated from.

As for boards, I recall being amazed that there were less than twenty five questions relating to meds and med administration (I took boards before computerized testing).

Sekar · Oct 26, 2003

Originally posted by kids-r-fun
Then by your reasoning I received "little to no pharmacology" in the accredited ADN program I graduated from.

As for boards, I recall being amazed that there were less than twenty five questions relating to meds and med administration (I took boards before computerized testing).

Dunno. I haven't seen your school's breakdown on credits. I too, took the exams prior to the computerized ones and half the questions were related to pharmacology. I know that varied a great deal from state to state in those days. Today, it is a bit more standarized, thankfully.

fab4fan · Oct 27, 2003

Pharmacology education is ongoing during nursing school (at least it was in mine). We did have basic classes in pharm., but then each clinical area brought its own meds. Each pt. assignment required us to research thoroughly the meds those pts were taking.

So that was three years of med education, not a semester (or whatever the time frame). I honestly don't remember how many questions we had on boards...that was nearly 20 years ago, and back in the day when boards were given over 2 days and you had hundreds of questions to answer.

Brownms46 · Oct 27, 2003

Originally posted by Sekar
Brownie! I am quite shocked! Suddenly you perform an about face here. Why is it OK for one group of unlicensed assistive personnel with minimal to no pharmacology training (CMAs) to give administer medications and not the other (Med Techs)? The law states that these "Med Techs" can administer medications, .

Please ..let's review! "I" object to having NAs with NO education giving medications! Are we clear on that point? I stated the NAs had NO education at all! Now...as opposed to an CNA giving meds with just a two week basic education as most CNA programs I'm aware of, and have assisted in instructing, "I" would have a problem with them giving meds! NOT a program for CMAs, that included pharmacology, A&P, Disease Process, and in some cases biology and pathology! Now the clinics I have worked in, the MD is right there, not just in the building! Their in a room, where the CMA has direct access to them! I have NOT been in a clinic where the CMA was giving medications when the MD was NOT in the immediate area! In fact where I have worked, the CMA could NOT give meds, if the MD she worked with was NOT there! In fact on the days that their MD was NOT there, they weren't even seeing pts!

Now there have been plenty of LPN AND RNs who I wouldn't trust to hand me a tylenol, but the two CMAs I have worked with could give medicaiton, and any of my familiy members!

Brownms46 · Oct 27, 2003

Excuse me, make that the FOUR CMAs I have worked with!!

Brownms46 · Oct 27, 2003

Originally posted by Speculating
Even the curriculum that Brownie herself presented had only one pharm class 5 credits. I don't know about you guys, but I feel safe with somebody passing and pushing meds with something like 4hrs.of pharm a week for 4 months not to mention zero clinicals The curriculum had something like 6 classes that had anything to do with medicine and about fifteen in none medical areas such as terminology, computers, insurance stuff... I worked, like many nursing students, fulltime and went to school fulltime as well as working every weekend for over four years to get my RN. I think what really upsets me here are the few people that come on board representing CMAs and remotely try to compare are educations and say they wear similar shoes with similar responsibilities is thoroughly insulting.

There are LPNs out there, who have NO phamacology course in their program, waaaay back when! And there are many license nurse who make you wonder, where they got their pharmcology education at:D!