incremental overtime

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Mar 2, 2004

If they arrive 15 minutes late and then leave 20 minutes late it sounds like no overtime to me. You aren't paying them for the time before they arrive right?

Try telling them that the schedule is going to change so official clock in time is 15 min later...peer pressure will hit at the same time the inconvienience does.

sjoe · Mar 3, 2004

I have recently returned to the bedside at a new small hospital in a low acuity ICU I am shocked at the incremental overtime among the staff nurses. Most of the staff arives about 10-15 minutes late then does charge nurse report and may be 20 minutes after clockout time the bedside report begins, No one makes an attempt to clock out on time, I am trying to find a way to change this behavior and have suggested alternatives but the the habit is ingrained and I have met with much hostility, any suggestions?

From your account, I agree with canoehead and don't see any problem. Perhaps I/we don't understand your post.

I do wonder, however, why you think it is up to you to change these people's habit that does not sound like it is ripping anyone off. Are you the Nurse Manager? Since they usually don't do bedside nursing, I would guess the answer is no.

jemb · Mar 3, 2004

I think I'm interpreting your post differently from the others who have responded.

Are you saying that you are the only one on your shift who arrives on time? Then you cannot get change of shift report from the prior shift's charge nurse until everyone else is there, which then puts bedside report even later? I can see why you would be concerned if you cannot start your own work until all this reporting off is done! Ultimately, you are the one ( and the only one) who has to put in overtime since the shift that follows yours does the same 'wander in when I feel ready' routine.

Have you brought this up to the manager, or just to your fellow bedside nurses? Sounds like a very frustrating position to be in as the 'new nurse on the block'.

Could you point out to the NM that you are having to put in overtime every day to finish report and be able to leave? Maybe suggest that you be allowed to report off to the charge nurse to "avoid the hospital's having to pay you overtime". If you can make it sound like you are concerned about the budget as well as your own inconvenience (and avoid putting blame on your coworkers at the same time), you might get better results.

Good luck. I hope it gets worked out for you.

SnowymtnRN · Mar 3, 2004

From your account, I agree with canoehead and don't see any problem. Perhaps I/we don't understand your post.
I do wonder, however, why you think it is up to you to change these people's habit that does not sound like it is ripping anyone off. Are you the Nurse Manager? Since they usually don't do bedside nursing, I would guess the answer is no.

Am wondering the same thing. Why is it up to you to change everyone else's habits? Are they good nurses? Are they performing well? They aren't clocking overtime it seems, just starting late. Sometimes that is annoying but how is it directly affecting YOU? This may rock the boat if you are the new kid on the block ya know??

nekhismom · Mar 3, 2004

I think if the others are late, it inconveniences you. I know when 0700 rolls around, I am ready for the day shift to be there so I can report off and leave. They mosey in anywhere from 5-15 mins. late, but boy, night shift better not be late, because they are ready to leave!!! :angryfire:

I say either join em or forget about it.

rstewart · Mar 3, 2004

Lolol.......OP obviously has a management background as evidenced by the thread's title. In ManagementLand there are two types of overtime, one good the other bad (much like cholesterol).

Good overtime, which includes mandatory overtime, occurs for entire shifts; it's characterized by being at the convenience of management and results in having to hire fewer full time benefited nurses and/or reduced agency use.

But bad overtime is called incremental overtime; charting past the end of a shift on the clock because you were too busy during the shift itself etc. is one common example.

Show me a nurse who uses terms such as dashboards (except in the context of car parts), benchmarks, challenges, stakeholders, data-rich etc.------or incremental overtime----and I'll show you a nurse exposed to that bizarre nursing management culture. lolol And that goes double for anyone who knows what the letters FAAN stand for without looking it up.

SnowymtnRN · Mar 3, 2004

I think if the others are late, it inconveniences you. I know when 0700 rolls around, I am ready for the day shift to be there so I can report off and leave. They mosey in anywhere from 5-15 mins. late, but boy, night shift better not be late, because they are ready to leave!!! :angryfire:
I say either join em or forget about it.

Now that's different! lol I know when one shift is ready to go and the other is late or just kinda messin' around that's wrong and will cause problems. It SHOULD. lol But the OP has returned to bedside nursing, so i'm just curious why she's trying to "fix" this behavior.

TracyB,RN, RN · Mar 3, 2004

I am in a similar situation, as a bedside nurse, NOT a manager. . .My relief shift gets to work on time, but spends 15-20 minutes shooting the breeze, showing pictures, idle chit-chat BS, etc. It is really frustrating to have to wait until they are done gossiping before I can give report. I tried writing out report & leaving my cell phone # on it so they could call me with any questions. I got told that MY behavior was inappropriate. SORRY, I have things to tend to, like my family. Their social skills shouldn't be my problem, but alas, they are b/c I end up leaving work late. OH, well, what can you do?

SnowymtnRN · Mar 3, 2004

Tracy, the minute my relief got to work i'd be like we have to do report NOW. i've got to go. And i'd bug the snot out of her til she got the idea! keep interrupting her BS time, saying "are you ready?" that sort of thing. lol That's very selfish on her behalf.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 3, 2004

I agree there is a lot of wasted time, and from an economic standpoint it adds up to paid unproductive time. Some of us arrive on time and start working. Others dilly dally in late, do nonproductive things and begin report about 30 minutes after arriving and then hit the floor a full hour after arriving.

Drives me crazy.

I'm with the OP, this kind of behavior is maddening to those of us conscientious enough to show up on time and want to begin work. It's especially maddening to those of us who kick butt all shift to be ready to give report and go home on time and get on with our private lives. Getting incremental overtime waiting for another person to show up and be ready for report is maddening, unproductive and costly.

Unfortunately, I just ***** and don't work on a solution. :)

maggiejones · Mar 4, 2004

At least i know this happens elsewhere. I have also written out report and left me phone number and was told not to do that. Now going to try giving the charge nurse report and leaving unless I am the charge nurse. We have a new manger coming so hope to see some changes.