Importance of NP Program Reputation, Name Recognition

[adventure_rn]

I'm considering applying to NP programs this fall, and I'm hoping to get some feedback.

As experienced NPs, did you find that your school's name/reputation was helpful in getting hired as a new grad? I'm sure that this topic has come up many times on AllNurses, but I've searched through a few forums and couldn't find it. I know that as an RN, school "name brands" are pretty useless. However, over the last several years, I do recall a few NPs on AN saying that attending a reputable NP school was beneficial in the hiring process; perhaps it's because those specific NPs were hired by MDs (vs. RNs, who are hired by other RNs), and "name branding" is a much bigger deal in medicine than it is in nursing.

I'm specifically interested in U-Penn's PNP program for a number of reasons: it's the only PNP I've found with a 'major'/concentration in my specialty of interest, it has rotations at one of the best children's hospitals in the world, it conducts classes in-person (though this may change post-COVID), and it can be completed in one year full-time. It also happens to be an expensive private school that is very well-ranked in both nursing and medicine (Top 3 in nursing, pediatric advanced practice nursing, and medicine). According to the website, the entire MSN can be completed for $55,000, although I'm not totally convinced.

Upon graduation, there's a very competitive new grad PNP fellowship (entirely unaffiliated with Penn) that I'd love to take part in. Unfortunately, given my nursing background (primarily in NICU, not PICU), I wouldn't be the strongest applicant. I'm hoping that attending a well-ranked, reputable NP program with a unique, pertinent concentration would make me a stronger applicant for the fellowship.

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

Both Penn and Yale use CCNE for their programs’ accreditation.

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

5 minutes ago, Spacklehead said:

Both Penn and Yale use CCNE for their programs’ accreditation.

The vast majority of NP programs are CCNE accredited...even Walden, Phoenix, Capella, Chamberlain, schools that fall under the "for profit" designation. That speaks to the wide range of standards that exist between all schools that have been accredited by CCNE.

Frontier is ACEN accredited not CCNE. ANCC and the other national boards require one to graduate from a program that is either CCNE or ACEN accredited to sit for their certification board exams.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

4 minutes ago, juan de la cruz said:

The vast majority of NP programs are CCNE accredited...even Walden, Phoenix, Capella, Chamberlain, schools that fall under the "for profit" designation. That speaks to the wide range of standards that exist between all schools that have been accredited by CCNE.

Frontier is ACEN accredited not CCNE. ANCC and the other national boards require one to graduate from a program that is either CCNE or ACEN accredited to sit for their certification board exams.

For the record, Frontier is technically a “not for profit”.

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

Just now, djmatte said:

For the record, Frontier is technically a “not for profit”.

Did I say that in my post? if there was even an implication of that, it wasn't intentional.

[djmatte, ADN, MSN, RN, NP]

Just now, juan de la cruz said:

Did I say that in my post? if there was even an implication of that, it wasn't intentional.

No. Just clarifying. I saw a list of “for profit” schools noted and listed. Felt inclined to clarify the matter ?

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

Point being if the school is CCNE accredited it will be approved by the state BON. That means the content of the program will meet what is needed for a grad to sit for the boards and get their NP from the state.
 

Again, in my previous posts I mentioned brick and mortar programs, not online programs. However, I’m sure there have been some good NPs from online schools, as well. I have nothing against Ivy League or prestigious institutions; what I have issue with is the possibility of those who visit this site who want to become an NP, but cannot spend a huge amount of money, to feel discouraged that their education won’t be “good enough” when looking for a job after graduation if they don’t attend an Ivy. I’m just letting them know that there are other ways to stand out as a job candidate and not to worry.

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

1 hour ago, Spacklehead said:

Point being if the school is CCNE accredited it will be approved by the state BON. That means the content of the program will meet what is needed for a grad to sit for the boards and get their NP from the state.
 

Again, in my previous posts I mentioned brick and mortar programs, not online programs. However, I’m sure there have been some good NPs from online schools, as well. I have nothing against Ivy League or prestigious institutions; what I have issue with is the possibility of those who visit this site who want to become an NP, but cannot spend a huge amount of money, to feel discouraged that their education won’t be “good enough” when looking for a job after graduation if they don’t attend an Ivy. I’m just letting them know that there are other ways to stand out as a job candidate and not to worry.

Absolutely! State schools are often a great choice and many have an excellent reputation!

The only time I think a school name on a resume might be a red flag to a recruiter, especially as the market tightens (thanks to the 30K NP graduates annually), will be those for-profit programs that take anyone. It signals either the candidate didn't do research on school quality, didn't want to try to apply to more rigorous programs, or quite frankly couldn't get in anywhere else. They are the NP equivalent of the "Caribbean medical school" doctor (except with lower standards).

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

1 hour ago, Spacklehead said:

Point being if the school is CCNE accredited it will be approved by the state BON. That means the content of the program will meet what is needed for a grad to sit for the boards and get their NP from the state.

True to an extent. California is an outlier here...we have schools that are CCNE accredited but not CA BRN approved. Case being Charles R Drew University in LA. Their grads can get licensed as NP's in California because they can sit for the national board exams.

 

1 hour ago, Spacklehead said:

Again, in my previous posts I mentioned brick and mortar programs, not online programs. However, I’m sure there have been some good NPs from online schools, as well. I have nothing against Ivy League or prestigious institutions; what I have issue with is the possibility of those who visit this site who want to become an NP, but cannot spend a huge amount of money, to feel discouraged that their education won’t be “good enough” when looking for a job after graduation if they don’t attend an Ivy. I’m just letting them know that there are other ways to stand out as a job candidate and not to worry.

Agreed. I made a conscious decision to attend a state university because of the affordability in the tuition. Surprisingly, some students who attend Ivy League programs actually could get tuition assistance as these schools have large private grant endowments.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

On 2/12/2021 at 3:14 PM, Spacklehead said:

You just can’t argue that where you went to school will be considered more important to a future employer than what kind of previous nursing and clinical experience you have. Again, maybe as a new grad on equal playing ground, yes, it might help you get your foot in the door - but someone who has strong RN experience at a level 1 trauma hospital will most likely get the position over an Ivy League grad who has only done nursing clinicals in their RN program. New NP grads with no previous RN working experience will have a much steeper learning curve the first several months. Think about it, NP schools were formed initially to build off of what experienced nurses learned on the job. That’s why they don’t require nearly as many clinical hours as PA programs, for example. 

Yes, you can argue this and I do.  

1.  I take it that you are an Acute Care NP.  What you say makes sense for new Acute Care NPs.  Reputable Acute Care NP programs require RN experience for admission.  That makes sense.

2.  However, the vast majority of NPs work in primary care.  That is completely different from acute care and RN experience is of little use in that environment.  In fact, one study concluded that new NPs w/RN experience were actually scored lower by MDs on physical assessment skills!  (Blinded study).

3.  I have had the unfortunate experience of working with NPs who went to crappy schools who had RN experience, and they were crappy NPs. 

4.  In general, it is MDs that hire NPs. MDs care about school, very much.  I got a lot of interviews just because the MD wanted to meet someone who went to Hopkins.  In general, when I have an interview, I get the job.

5. Employer will DEFINITELY ask to see a transcript for a new grad NP.  

NOTE:  One does not have to go to an Ivy League school or a school like Hopkins.  However, anyone considering becoming an NP should only consider reputable state and private schools.  Any state school is fine.  There are also many excellent private schools.  The state schools are generally the best financial option.  Many of these crappy for-profit schools, are actually MORE expensive than even schools like Hopkins!

[Spacklehead, MSN, NP]

Sigh......again, no one fully reads my posts. If you did, you’d see that I mentioned attending a brick and mortar program - not a fully for-profit, online program. I am not arguing that one should not attend a reputable NP Program - for I believe quite the opposite. What I said was I don’t feel that going to “an Ivy” is a must for a better chance at getting a job. Also, many reputable schools now offer online/distance learning (Villanova comes to mind). 
 

Also, I am a FNP, not ACNP. I returned to get my MSN after 10 years of nursing experience which included the ER and progressive cardiac unit. As an NP I have worked in primary care, urgent care, occupational health, and PAT. I was not asked for a transcript as a new grad NP during any of my interviews. Was never asked about my school. What was asked was previous nursing experience and my clinical rotation experiences. My ER nursing experience has been absolutely beneficial to my work as an NP. To say it is of little use in primary care is absurd, especially since many “after hours” primary care patients would show up to the ER before urgent cares sprouted up everywhere. Doctors, as well as nurses, conducted my interviews, typically panel style. 
 

If you read up on the history of NP programs they all used to require previous nursing experience. That is why they involve less clinical hours as opposed to PAs. They were developed assuming that experienced RNs would apply. I see you have 3 years of experience - does that include your nursing experience? If so, I can see why where you went to school for your NP made a difference during your interview. One study will not sway me either way. 
 

What you wrote at the end of your post is what I’ve been saying all along if you read my posts. We are mostly in agreement. 

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

17 hours ago, Spacklehead said:

Sigh......again, no one fully reads my posts. If you did, you’d see that I mentioned attending a brick and mortar program - not a fully for-profit, online program. I am not arguing that one should not attend a reputable NP Program - for I believe quite the opposite. What I said was I don’t feel that going to “an Ivy” is a must for a better chance at getting a job. Also, many reputable schools now offer online/distance learning (Villanova comes to mind). 
 

Also, I am a FNP, not ACNP. I returned to get my MSN after 10 years of nursing experience which included the ER and progressive cardiac unit. As an NP I have worked in primary care, urgent care, occupational health, and PAT. I was not asked for a transcript as a new grad NP during any of my interviews. Was never asked about my school. What was asked was previous nursing experience and my clinical rotation experiences. My ER nursing experience has been absolutely beneficial to my work as an NP. To say it is of little use in primary care is absurd, especially since many “after hours” primary care patients would show up to the ER before urgent cares sprouted up everywhere. Doctors, as well as nurses, conducted my interviews, typically panel style. 
 

If you read up on the history of NP programs they all used to require previous nursing experience. That is why they involve less clinical hours as opposed to PAs. They were developed assuming that experienced RNs would apply. I see you have 3 years of experience - does that include your nursing experience? If so, I can see why where you went to school for your NP made a difference during your interview. One study will not sway me either way. 
 

What you wrote at the end of your post is what I’ve been saying all along if you read my posts. We are mostly in agreement. 

There have been a few studies done and none of them showed any advantage from RN experience for primary care NPs.  So that is the EVIDENCE.  

No, I did not have RN experience.  I went straight from ABSN to MSN and got 9 job offers!  Yet, I constantly see on this board new grad NPs with RN experience complaining they can't get an NP job.

I don't know where you interviewed, but every place that interviewed me as a new grad NP required submission of transcripts.  ALL of them.  

For those of you who insist that your opinion or anecdotal evidence is actual evidence, I will say again that I have worked with plenty of crappy NPs who had RN experience.  

Furthermore, I actually have had some doctors tell me they DO NOT want new grad NPs with RN experience because they are too used to working in a hospital and don't understand the primary care environment.

To summarize my opinion:

1.  If you know you want to be an NP, then go for it.  You do not have to work as an RN to become a primary care NP.

2.  PLEASE to to a reputable school!  Any state school is fine and that will also save you a lot of money.  However, do not be afraid to apply to good private schools (non-profit) because many of them have generous scholarship programs and you could end up paying less than for a state school.  DO NOT GO TO A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL!

Examples:

California

- UC system nursing schools - UCLA, UC Davis, etc.

- State college and university schools - Cal State LA, Sacramento State, SDSU, etc.

- Reputable private schools - Univ of San Diego Hahn School, Loma Linda, etc

3.  If you are too afraid of a competitive admissions process, then sorry, you should not become an NP.

 

[MentalKlarity, BSN, NP]

1 hour ago, FullGlass said:

There have been a few studies done and none of them showed any advantage from RN experience for primary care NPs.  So that is the EVIDENCE.  

No, I did not have RN experience.  I went straight from ABSN to MSN and got 9 job offers!  Yet, I constantly see on this board new grad NPs with RN experience complaining they can't get an NP job.

I don't know where you interviewed, but every place that interviewed me as a new grad NP required submission of transcripts.  ALL of them.  

For those of you who insist that your opinion or anecdotal evidence is actual evidence, I will say again that I have worked with plenty of crappy NPs who had RN experience.  

Furthermore, I actually have had some doctors tell me they DO NOT want new grad NPs with RN experience because they are too used to working in a hospital and don't understand the primary care environment.

To summarize my opinion:

1.  If you know you want to be an NP, then go for it.  You do not have to work as an RN to become a primary care NP.

2.  PLEASE to to a reputable school!  Any state school is fine and that will also save you a lot of money.  However, do not be afraid to apply to good private schools (non-profit) because many of them have generous scholarship programs and you could end up paying less than for a state school.  DO NOT GO TO A FOR PROFIT SCHOOL!

Examples:

California

- UC system nursing schools - UCLA, UC Davis, etc.

- State college and university schools - Cal State LA, Sacramento State, SDSU, etc.

- Reputable private schools - Univ of San Diego Hahn School, Loma Linda, etc

3.  If you are too afraid of a competitive admissions process, then sorry, you should not become an NP.

 

Agreed. No amount of RN experience will overcome having a for-profit diploma mill on your resume.