I'm considering applying to NP programs this fall, and I'm hoping to get some feedback.
As experienced NPs, did you find that your school's name/reputation was helpful in getting hired as a new grad? I'm sure that this topic has come up many times on AllNurses, but I've searched through a few forums and couldn't find it. I know that as an RN, school "name brands" are pretty useless. However, over the last several years, I do recall a few NPs on AN saying that attending a reputable NP school was beneficial in the hiring process; perhaps it's because those specific NPs were hired by MDs (vs. RNs, who are hired by other RNs), and "name branding" is a much bigger deal in medicine than it is in nursing.
I'm specifically interested in U-Penn's PNP program for a number of reasons: it's the only PNP I've found with a 'major'/concentration in my specialty of interest, it has rotations at one of the best children's hospitals in the world, it conducts classes in-person (though this may change post-COVID), and it can be completed in one year full-time. It also happens to be an expensive private school that is very well-ranked in both nursing and medicine (Top 3 in nursing, pediatric advanced practice nursing, and medicine). According to the website, the entire MSN can be completed for $55,000, although I'm not totally convinced.
Upon graduation, there's a very competitive new grad PNP fellowship (entirely unaffiliated with Penn) that I'd love to take part in. Unfortunately, given my nursing background (primarily in NICU, not PICU), I wouldn't be the strongest applicant. I'm hoping that attending a well-ranked, reputable NP program with a unique, pertinent concentration would make me a stronger applicant for the fellowship.
Specializes in Emergency, Cardiac, PAT/SPU, Urgent Care.
FullGlass, I have to say that the tone of your posts really come across as having issues with RN’s who actually work or have worked as RN’s. No one is putting down new grad NPs on here with no previous nursing experience, though you seem to have an issue with me saying that IME, my nursing experience and clinical rotations are what helped get me my first NP positions. Not so sure why that seems to bother you so much? Again, the main point of my argument was that there is no need to shell out a ton of money for IVY league schools as there are less expensive options that are just as good and provide a great NP education, as well as create job opportunities. My response was to the OP as she/he had mentioned an Ivy League school vs other schools of “less” prestige.
I get that either you don’t agree with me or don’t like the fact that my previous nursing experience made the difference with me getting hired as a new grad NP. Not sure what else to tell you there. I also do believe the OP was asking an “anecdotal” question, hence my “anecdotal” answer. Didn’t have to be based in research (again, to which there is very little and does not really lean one way or the other as it is so limited)
Remaining humble, asking questions, admitting what you don’t know, doing research to find the correct answers, embracing your education, seeking out the best clinical experiences possible, being kind to your fellow RN’s, and being a life-long learner are what will take a new NP grad far in any job and with any amount of experience.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
1 hour ago, Spacklehead said:
FullGlass, I have to say that the tone of your posts really come across as having issues with RN’s who actually work or have worked as RN’s. No one is putting down new grad NPs on here with no previous nursing experience, though you seem to have an issue with me saying that IME, my nursing experience and clinical rotations are what helped get me my first NP positions. Not so sure why that seems to bother you so much? Again, the main point of my argument was that there is no need to shell out a ton of money for IVY league schools as there are less expensive options that are just as good and provide a great NP education, as well as create job opportunities. My response was to the OP as she/he had mentioned an Ivy League school vs other schools of “less” prestige.
I get that either you don’t agree with me or don’t like the fact that my previous nursing experience made the difference with me getting hired as a new grad NP. Not sure what else to tell you there. I also do believe the OP was asking an “anecdotal” question, hence my “anecdotal” answer. Didn’t have to be based in research (again, to which there is very little and does not really lean one way or the other as it is so limited)
Remaining humble, asking questions, admitting what you don’t know, doing research to find the correct answers, embracing your education, seeking out the best clinical experiences possible, being kind to your fellow RN’s, and being a life-long learner are what will take a new NP grad far in any job and with any amount of experience.
There are many people on this forum that put down NPs w/o RN experience. I'm glad that you are not one of them.
I am very frustrated by the constant questions and discussions on whether school matters. Yes, it does. RNs and NPs are the only professions where I've ever seen this even discussed! My goodness, high school students work their butts off to get into the best school possible. College students in every other profession - law, medicine, business, science, etc - work their butts off to get into the best grad school possible (if that is their goal). Every parent that I know wants their kids to go to the best school possible! Has anyone ever heard a loving parent say that "school doesn't matter for my kids - they can just go to a crap school."
I am seriously beginning to wonder if nurses secretly do not believe they deserve the best. Well, I believe I deserve the best!
You and I agree that one's school does not have to be an "Ivy League" school. All we are saying is that it should be a reputable school that is non-profit.
And more and more preceptors just will not bother with students that go to crap schools. No clinicals, no degree.
In summary, go to the best school that you can get into and can afford! For some, that may be a school like SDSU or Cal State - those are excellent schools that are quite affordable for California residents. Others will be fortunate enough to get into schools like UCLA, Hopkins, Yale and if they get good financial aid, then go!
There are many people on this forum that put down NPs w/o RN experience. I'm glad that you are not one of them.
I am very frustrated by the constant questions and discussions on whether school matters. Yes, it does. RNs and NPs are the only professions where I've ever seen this even discussed! My goodness, high school students work their butts off to get into the best school possible. College students in every other profession - law, medicine, business, science, etc - work their butts off to get into the best grad school possible (if that is their goal). Every parent that I know wants their kids to go to the best school possible! Has anyone ever heard a loving parent say that "school doesn't matter for my kids - they can just go to a crap school."
I am seriously beginning to wonder if nurses secretly do not believe they deserve the best. Well, I believe I deserve the best!
You and I agree that one's school does not have to be an "Ivy League" school. All we are saying is that it should be a reputable school that is non-profit.
And more and more preceptors just will not bother with students that go to crap schools. No clinicals, no degree.
In summary, go to the best school that you can get into and can afford! For some, that may be a school like SDSU or Cal State - those are excellent schools that are quite affordable for California residents. Others will be fortunate enough to get into schools like UCLA, Hopkins, Yale and if they get good financial aid, then go!
I've actually heard of NPs who will not precept for-profit students to help bring down those schools. Scary thing is eventually only the for profit NPs will be for-profit preceptors. The blind leading the blind?
I've actually heard of NPs who will not precept for-profit students to help bring down those schools. Scary thing is eventually only the for profit NPs will be for-profit preceptors. The blind leading the blind?
I am one of them, though it is for a different reason. After precepting a few, I had absolutely no desire to be affiliated, in any way, with those institutions.
This is nonexhaustive; among the problems with the students (1 characterized every single one of these traits, though thankfully the rest only had a few of them): Did not even know what classes he was taking that semester, or what he was supposed to learn, bringing wrong syllabus, fabricating hours (I work 8 hour shifts, she registered 12 hours in her log and was somehow shocked when I said no), repeat dishonesty, zero interest or willingness to learn/practice skills, "knowing it" on day 1 and not needing any critique, and my all time favorite, treating my staff like garbage (it was funny when he did it to my supervisor, she was unimpressed and I was one of several people who corrected him - to no avail). The REAL kicker? Despite my assessments all students passed. In comparison, students from reputable state schools have been a massive cut higher. Do they have faults? Certainly, but the magnitude is the difference between a nuclear bomb and a hand grenade.
Frankly, if we want to protect our profession the online for profits need shut down. We need fewer but higher quality schools recruiting and educating fewer but better NPs.
I am one of them, though it is for a different reason. After precepting a few, I had absolutely no desire to be affiliated, in any way, with those institutions.
This is nonexhaustive; among the problems with the students (1 characterized every single one of these traits, though thankfully the rest only had a few of them): Did not even know what classes he was taking that semester, or what he was supposed to learn, bringing wrong syllabus, fabricating hours (I work 8 hour shifts, she registered 12 hours in her log and was somehow shocked when I said no), repeat dishonesty, zero interest or willingness to learn/practice skills, "knowing it" on day 1 and not needing any critique, and my all time favorite, treating my staff like garbage (it was funny when he did it to my supervisor, she was unimpressed and I was one of several people who corrected him - to no avail). The REAL kicker? Despite my assessments all students passed. In comparison, students from reputable state schools have been a massive cut higher. Do they have faults? Certainly, but the magnitude is the difference between a nuclear bomb and a hand grenade.
Frankly, if we want to protect our profession the online for profits need shut down. We need fewer but higher quality schools recruiting and educating fewer but better NPs.
Specializes in Emergency, Cardiac, PAT/SPU, Urgent Care.
I actually see the “does school matter” discussion quite frequently as I also belong to a college discussion forum (daughter is heading off to college next year). Numerous people ask, If I’m thinking of majoring in x, will which school I go to make a difference?” A lot of it does depend on the major - I imagine a profession such as elementary ED doesn’t place much emphasis on where the degree came from (Ivy vs State school). Same goes for traditional BSN grads. Where I see degrees truly matter are the Wall Street players (Investment bankers, etc). The internships provided by schools such as Wharton (Penn) or Columbia will open many, many doors. Trust me, most parents these days want their kids to attend a school which is decent, but also doesn’t put themselves or their kids in debt for years to come. Most of the high academic schools (Ivies included) only offer need-based aid, no merit money.
Again, I agree that with NP programs the degree should come from a legit program with a great track record.
As far as previous nursing experience goes, (and yes, this is anecdotal) I can definitely say that in urgent / emergent situations, it definitely helped me as a new NP. Nurses tend to develop a sixth sense when they spend years taking care of patients. It’s difficult to explain, but it definitely has saved my a** several times. Even in primary care, there are times when something just seems “off” about a patient and you get that feeling, and you know you need to dig deeper, ask more questions, listen more carefully.
They say in medicine that you can typically figure out what is going on with the patient through taking an excellent and thorough history. This is where nurses excel, as they are the ones who historically spend the most time with their patients, listening to them and focusing on the whole patient. This is where I feel my nursing background has truly helped me to excel as an NP.
Every school produces crappy students who somehow manage to graduate and pass boards. To me it is more of a personality issue vs school issue. Yes, some schools are just plain terrible, but most times it is the student who is the problem. They are lazy, over-confident, and don’t respect those that have come before them. I truly wish there was a way NP programs could weed out these types of students during the admission interviews!
Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I’ve been a member here since 2004 but haven’t visited in a while and it is interesting for me to see how the discussions have evolved over time.
Spacklehead, MSN, NP
620 Posts
FullGlass, I have to say that the tone of your posts really come across as having issues with RN’s who actually work or have worked as RN’s. No one is putting down new grad NPs on here with no previous nursing experience, though you seem to have an issue with me saying that IME, my nursing experience and clinical rotations are what helped get me my first NP positions. Not so sure why that seems to bother you so much? Again, the main point of my argument was that there is no need to shell out a ton of money for IVY league schools as there are less expensive options that are just as good and provide a great NP education, as well as create job opportunities. My response was to the OP as she/he had mentioned an Ivy League school vs other schools of “less” prestige.
I get that either you don’t agree with me or don’t like the fact that my previous nursing experience made the difference with me getting hired as a new grad NP. Not sure what else to tell you there. I also do believe the OP was asking an “anecdotal” question, hence my “anecdotal” answer. Didn’t have to be based in research (again, to which there is very little and does not really lean one way or the other as it is so limited)
Remaining humble, asking questions, admitting what you don’t know, doing research to find the correct answers, embracing your education, seeking out the best clinical experiences possible, being kind to your fellow RN’s, and being a life-long learner are what will take a new NP grad far in any job and with any amount of experience.