Imagine If You Will...

toomuchbaloney · Nov 18, 2021

24 minutes ago, RuralMOSchoolRN said:

I am in Missouri. I have heard from multiple nursing friends who's hospitals are mandating the vaccine that they are not accepting any reasons for not becoming vaccinated. My best friend is OB overnight charge nurse in a facility who's parent hospital mandated the vaccine. She is now short 5 nurses who early retired or left completely.

My exemption note would probably not allow me to fly, be in public in multiple states, etc. That doesn't seem very fair to me when taking the vaccine could literally kill me.

Hearsay and belief but no actual evidence except your own exemption...which seems to contradict your belief about not allowing contraindications. It sounds like you are maybe deciding what is fair based upon assumption and opinion. Do you have any citations?

toomuchbaloney · Nov 18, 2021

Dozens of health groups urge businesses to voluntarily adopt Biden’s vaccine rule

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/18/doctors-health-groups-urge-businesses-adopt-vaccine-rule/

Quote

The American Medical Association and more than 60 other health care associations on Thursday called on employers to voluntarily implement President Biden’s contested vaccine-or-testing mandate, saying businesses had no time to waste ahead of the busy holiday season.
“We — physicians, nurses and advanced practice clinicians, health experts, and health care professional societies — fully support the requirement that workers at companies with over 100 workers be vaccinated or tested,” the organizations wrote in a joint statement. “From the first day of this pandemic, businesses have wanted to vanquish this virus. Now is their chance to step up and show they are serious.”

Step up.

Guest219794 · Nov 19, 2021

3 hours ago, RuralMOSchoolRN said:

I am in Missouri. I have heard from multiple nursing friends who's hospitals are mandating the vaccine that they are not accepting any reasons for not becoming vaccinated. My best friend is OB overnight charge nurse in a facility who's parent hospital mandated the vaccine. She is now short 5 nurses who early retired or left completely.

My exemption note would probably not allow me to fly, be in public in multiple states, etc. That doesn't seem very fair to me when taking the vaccine could literally kill me.

There were 5 nurses in one unit who all had legitimate medical reasons to not get vaccinated? That is a pretty wild statistical anomaly.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 19, 2021

54 minutes ago, hherrn said:

There were 5 nurses in one unit who all had legitimate medical reasons to not get vaccinated? That is a pretty wild statistical anomaly.

I didn't understand that comment you quoted to have implied that the 5 nurses had medical contraindications, rather, that they chose to leave their jobs (presumably) because of the vaccine mandate. Still, that many nurses in one unit refusing vaccination is still an anomaly. IMV

allnurses Guide · Nov 19, 2021

6 hours ago, RuralMOSchoolRN said:

I had a severe allergic reaction to the first Covid vaccine I was given and it also set off my autoimmune disease. I cannot receive additional vaccinations for medical reasons which my rheumatologist has written a letter for me.

I'm a school nurse and also work at the Health Dept vaccinating and giving boosters to a lot of people. I don't think I should have to leave my job due to a real medical condition making me unable to become "fully vaccinated".

Luckily neither job has forced the issue. The reason I'm against the mandate is because it does NOT allow for real medical conditions or religious reasons to be exempt. And I don't think being fired is the answer. I wear a mask when I'm closer than 6 foot with people (honestly an arbitrary number). I am tested every two weeks via work.

Covid is going to be like influenza--frequent testing r/t symptoms, yearly vaccination boosters needed (get enough variants and I bet they will craft the vaccine to include certain variants each year like influenza), and increased awareness needed. The vaccine does NOT eradicate the disease. With animals testing positive for Sars-Cov19 even if it was eradicated in people it has a reservoir to bring it back cyclically. I'm all for vaccinations in vulnerable populations when able to receive it and those that want to receive it voluntarily. We cannot continue to be in pandemic mode for the rest of our lives. At some point we will have to treat this as the cyclic, chronic disease it has become. There are more and more treatments becoming available and it appears medication similar in mechanism to Tamiflu (eases symptom severity and duration if given within 48 hours) is coming online soon as well.

I am not saying this is a benign disease or that I'm anti-Vacc or that it hasn't hurt and killed a lot of people But I also think its unfair to characterize everyone that doesn't want/can't take the full vaccine course as a right wing nut job that doesn't care about anybody else around them.

To be honest, there are a lot of things in this post that are just echo-chamber political junk. It is a little suspect that you state you have a legitimate medical exemption and that you are pro-vax and not a right wing nut job, while at the same time using what are essentially political buzz phrases.

Guest219794 · Nov 19, 2021

10 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I didn't understand that comment you quoted to have implied that the 5 nurses had medical contraindications, rather, that they chose to leave their jobs (presumably) because of the vaccine mandate. Still, that many nurses in one unit refusing vaccination is still an anomaly. IMV

It was in direct response to a quesion about exsmptions for medical issues.

As far as 5 leaving one unit- I think that there are nursing specialties with different takes on vaccinations. Not as a rule, but some specialties seem more inclined to have nurses that are anti covid vax. OB seems to be one of them, which I find weird. On this forum, psych seems over-represented in that camp, which I find less weird. What I don't see is nurses working in ICUs or other areas where they are actually caring for sick covid patientswho think that there risks of pericarditis- or whatever- will increase with caccination.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 19, 2021

12 minutes ago, hherrn said:

It was in direct response to a quesion about exsmptions for medical issues.

As far as 5 leaving one unit- I think that there are nursing specialties with different takes on vaccinations. Not as a rule, but some specialties seem more inclined to have nurses that are anti covid vax. OB seems to be one of them, which I find weird. On this forum, psych seems over-represented in that camp, which I find less weird. What I don't see is nurses working in ICUs or other areas where they are actually caring for sick covid patientswho think that there risks of pericarditis- or whatever- will increase with caccination.

Yeah. Members certainly leave the impression that OB nurses might tend toward antivaxxer attitudes. I simply don't believe it.

Guest219794 · Nov 19, 2021

15 hours ago, RuralMOSchoolRN said:

I had a severe allergic reaction to the first Covid vaccine I was given and it also set off my autoimmune disease. I cannot receive additional vaccinations for medical reasons which my rheumatologist has written a letter for me.

I'm a school nurse and also work at the Health Dept vaccinating and giving boosters to a lot of people. I don't think I should have to leave my job due to a real medical condition making me unable to become "fully vaccinated".

Luckily neither job has forced the issue. The reason I'm against the mandate is because it does NOT allow for real medical conditions or religious reasons to be exempt. And I don't think being fired is the answer. I wear a mask when I'm closer than 6 foot with people (honestly an arbitrary number). I am tested every two weeks via work.

Covid is going to be like influenza--frequent testing r/t symptoms, yearly vaccination boosters needed (get enough variants and I bet they will craft the vaccine to include certain variants each year like influenza), and increased awareness needed. The vaccine does NOT eradicate the disease. With animals testing positive for Sars-Cov19 even if it was eradicated in people it has a reservoir to bring it back cyclically. I'm all for vaccinations in vulnerable populations when able to receive it and those that want to receive it voluntarily. We cannot continue to be in pandemic mode for the rest of our lives. At some point we will have to treat this as the cyclic, chronic disease it has become. There are more and more treatments becoming available and it appears medication similar in mechanism to Tamiflu (eases symptom severity and duration if given within 48 hours) is coming online soon as well.

I am not saying this is a benign disease or that I'm anti-Vacc or that it hasn't hurt and killed a lot of people But I also think its unfair to characterize everyone that doesn't want/can't take the full vaccine course as a right wing nut job that doesn't care about anybody else around them.

If I read this correctly, you have a legitimate medical exemption, and are allowed to continue working. It seems to me that in a state like Missouri, it would be newsworthy if those with medical contraindications to vaccination were being fired. Any links to any articles?

I will take the minority postion on this. I think that,arguably, it may be within the rights of an employer to not allow anybody who is unvaccinated for any reason to have direct contact with certain populations. If you have anaphylactic reactions to peanut butter for example, you may loose your job as the person who spreads the peanut butter between the crackers in thos snack pack thingies. Too much liabilty for the employer.

My family is an employer. We have a 96 year old aunt with underlying respiratory disease we hire care takers for. We do not hire anybody unvaccinated. While we don't hire detctives to follow anybody around, if we saw one of them acting recklessly, no mask on an NYC subway, for example, we would fire that person.

Similarly, if we hada preemie, I would let hospital admin know of my expectation that nobody's political beliefs put my baby at risk.

BTW- Flu comparisons aren't all that accurate here. Maybe someday they will be, but not for a while.

I wonder if you could expound on this- "We cannot continue to be in pandemic mode for the rest of our lives" At what point would you suggest we come out of pandemic mode? I suggest it is right about when there is no pandemic. Like how people wait till the tornado is over before they leave the tornado shelter. There are actual experts in how we get out of pandemic mode. Literally, the best minds in the world have worked on this. They rely on science, and research and stuff like that. They overwhelmingly support vaccination mandates.

Guest219794 · Nov 19, 2021

42 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Yeah. Members certainly leave the impression that OB nurses might tend toward antivaxxer attitudes. I simply don't believe it.

I don't know many. The one I do says that she is shocked that this attitude is not uncommon with her peers.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 19, 2021

12 minutes ago, hherrn said:

I don't know many. The one I do says that she is shocked that this attitude is not uncommon with her peers.

My wife worked OB for a spell so we are acquainted with a number of nurses from that specialty. However, she worked in a high risk unit which was associated with a 20 bed inpatient antepartum unit and a large NICU. The nursing staff were very much science and evidence based.

I wonder what other science-based and data driven recommendations they don't follow in their nursing practice...presumably because of their feelings.

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 19, 2021

On 11/18/2021 at 12:29 PM, RuralMOSchoolRN said:

I had a severe allergic reaction to the first Covid vaccine I was given and it also set off my autoimmune disease. I cannot receive additional vaccinations for medical reasons which my rheumatologist has written a letter for me.

I'm a school nurse and also work at the Health Dept vaccinating and giving boosters to a lot of people. I don't think I should have to leave my job due to a real medical condition making me unable to become "fully vaccinated".

Luckily neither job has forced the issue. The reason I'm against the mandate is because it does NOT allow for real medical conditions or religious reasons to be exempt. And I don't think being fired is the answer. I wear a mask when I'm closer than 6 foot with people (honestly an arbitrary number). I am tested every two weeks via work.

Covid is going to be like influenza--frequent testing r/t symptoms, yearly vaccination boosters needed (get enough variants and I bet they will craft the vaccine to include certain variants each year like influenza), and increased awareness needed. The vaccine does NOT eradicate the disease. With animals testing positive for Sars-Cov19 even if it was eradicated in people it has a reservoir to bring it back cyclically. I'm all for vaccinations in vulnerable populations when able to receive it and those that want to receive it voluntarily. We cannot continue to be in pandemic mode for the rest of our lives. At some point we will have to treat this as the cyclic, chronic disease it has become. There are more and more treatments becoming available and it appears medication similar in mechanism to Tamiflu (eases symptom severity and duration if given within 48 hours) is coming online soon as well.

I am not saying this is a benign disease or that I'm anti-Vacc or that it hasn't hurt and killed a lot of people But I also think its unfair to characterize everyone that doesn't want/can't take the full vaccine course as a right wing nut job that doesn't care about anybody else around them.

I do not see that here. It HAS been said medical exemptions are understandable on this site before. We cannot be in pandemic mode forever; you are right. But the more eligible people are vaccinated the closer to getting out of this mess we will become. Medical exemptions, while they are valid, are relatively rare. Most people are simply choosing NOT to be vaccinated for reasons that are less legitimate; not to mention those lying about their vaccine status and/or falsifying documentation of such.

Orca, ADN, ASN, RN · Nov 20, 2021

On 11/9/2021 at 7:45 AM, toomuchbaloney said:

Just moving the unvaccinated healthcare workers to areas less likely to jeopardize vulnerable patients with employers who don't care about vaccination status.

Mandates work to increase vaccination rates.

My employer went to a mandate about a month ago (healthcare is only a small portion of the operation here). Our vaccination rate went from just over 60 percent to nearly 90 percent.