I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
I have not committed a straw man fallacy. OC says that nothing, ever, is objectively wrong and that legal equates to moral. I gave her several examples of things that have been legal but are almost universally regarded as objectively wrong. She disagrees and still says legal equals moral. At this point we have nowhere else to go, I'm just left in total disbelief.
You have not committed a straw man fallacy. No worries.
Skipping to the end of the comments it appears this thread has gotten a little out of hand. That said, I'll offer my viewpoint as an Obstetrics RN who is a Male. With the few exceptions of when cultural background has dictated having a female RN assigned, I've yet had a patient ask me to not insert the catheter................
Thank you for offering your perspective.
I think this shows that everyone has a different experience. There are some nurses who are male on this thread who did have some issues and some who did not.
I did have one case where a young man my son went to high school with was my patient and needed a F/C . . . . he was not comfortable with his friend's mom doing that procedure and I found another female nurse to help me out.
These experiences are all individual and all valid. That's why I don't want to jump on the OP and tell him he is wrong.
Must we consider how male patients feel if they are homosexual and assigned a male nurse? What about if both the nurse and the patient are homosexual? Is it then only appropriate if an opposite-gender nurse is assigned?
What about performing a 12-lead, or chest compressions? Do we have to account for nurse modesty and prudishness when charge nurses make staffing assignments? Should we conduct a 100-point psychosocial assessment of physical, mental, and emotional arousal factors prior to patient assignments?
When people say "You're supposed to be a professional" what they mean is that we as nurses must be professional about our responsibilities, duties, and care. If you are unable to perform your duties because you are aroused by a sick / injured patient in your care, get the hell out of this field. Get the hell away from bedside care. Remove yourself from the public side of nursing. You lack the ability to be professional, and should not be engaging in patient care.
Being a nurse does mean leaving some of your private self behind when engaging in patient care. You can't break down when you are working on a sad case. You can't have yourself a little cry when you're doing compressions on a 3 m/o just because it makes you sad. You have to do your job, regardless of your personal feelings, because you are a professional.
If you are unable to perform your duties because you are aroused by a sick / injured patient in your care, get the hell out of this field. Get the hell away from bedside care. Remove yourself from the public side of nursing. You lack the ability to be professional, and should not be engaging in patient care.
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The OP was not talking about becoming aroused by cathing a female.
You shouldn't let gender come into the picture at all. If you're comfortable with performing the procedure and your overall skills as a Murse, you need to project confidence, be professional, and get it done. When you start to think things might be weird because I'm a guy you feed into this perpetual cycle that lets patients think they can request whatever they want. Sometimes resources are limited and in order to be productive you can't be calling on your colleagues for this or that. Patients need to accept murses just as they accept male physicians.
You shouldn't let gender come into the picture at all. If you're comfortable with performing the procedure and your overall skills as a Murse,............
Oh no . . . .not the "Murse" thing.
Let's not go there. We've already had one recent thread about that.
I have been a nurse for 27 years, and am competent to do catheter insertions on males and females, and am a NP and am capable of collecting swabs for STDs on both males and females. In my practice I never thought twice about putting a cath in either, but will certainly perform the procedure for my male colleagues on female patients if they ask me, and would never think twice about it. In return I sure do appreciate them doing swabs on male patients for me. If they aren't available for me then I will do it myself. Its not for me, its for the patients. I have worked with all ages from babies to geriatrics. Going to your gynecologist or primary care provider and having a procedure like that done by someone you have been cared for over the years is different than someone you have never met, and don't really know is a bit different. As far as a chaperone in the room with you during that type of exam, I feel is a must. There are too many liabilities when patients are sick and vulnerable. It is wise to protect yourself, so that after the fact there are no misunderstandings about what was done and why.
Well, until working with some american nurses, all I ever knew was that you had a chaperone if doing certain procedures on a female - so for practical purposes, I'd sort the male patients out, and the women would sort out my female patients for such procedures.
What I find concerning is this attitude that a nurse has to do it all, that our likes and dislikes don't matter, that fellow nurses would not think me a real nurse because of one procedure I don't do.
Thanks for all your support guys. Nice one.
I hate poop....can I refuse to clean a patient up? Seriously..you can't just refuse to do your job. If the patient declines you to do it, that is different, but to straight out say, I don't do that....tells me you have issues.
So you'd be fine with a man doing that with your 18yr old daughter? Maybe you are fine with it, but is your daughter?
I have 3 daughters ranging from 8-13 months and I am absolutely okay with a male professional nurse or doctor doing anything medically related to my child. Maybe it's time to hang the ol' scrubs up and call your career a day if this is truly how you feel. I would be highly offended if my male nurse felt as if he couldn't CATH me bc I am female and he was male.
I have 3 daughters ranging from 8-13 months and I am absolutely okay with a male professional nurse or doctor doing anything medically related to my child. Maybe it's time to hang the ol' scrubs up and call your career a day if this is truly how you feel. I would be highly offended if my male nurse felt as if he couldn't CATH me bc I am female and he was male.
I have a daughter and I would not be comfortable. And neither would she.
The OP has good points to make. Not everyone thinks/feels the same way.
We've already had one recent thread about that..thumb.jpg.4079e404de05e55b7c37798612169324.jpg){kind=small}
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
You have not committed a straw man fallacy. No worries.