I saw another nurse assault a patient

nurseactivist · Nov 10, 2015

Inform the other witness that your are both mandated reporters. You must report and the other witness is risking being in trouble for not reporting. Both of you go and report it to the manager.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 10, 2015

Nope, this is NOT a homework assignment and no, I have no concern about my career - nor my ethics. He will be reported. The patients need protection. My question has more to do with being taken dispassionately and seriously. The male nurse quickly laid groundwork for a defense after the incident, saying that the patient had swung at him. That is most certainly not the truth. But when I bring this forward to the manager, I worry that it will be a case of "he said, she said". And in the end, because it can be argued that I have an "axe to grind", I shall be totally discounted and nothing further will be done to rectify the situation. And how will that affect potential reporters of future incidences? I am glad for those of you whose world is so black and white. Mine is full of gray...

There is no gray in this matter as you describe it; a patient was assualted by a nurse, it was observed by yourself and another nurse, it must be reported. Clear. Black and white with no gray.

It. Must. Be. Reported.

I suppose that the aftermath of that reporting could be a bit gray, oh well. I find that in the real world we are often called upon to do the right thing, to take the high moral ground, to stand in the gap for the least of these, etc and that we have no guarantees that the results of those good deeds will be pleasant for us in this lifetime.

At least in my personal situation I have a faith system which encourages me to do what is right when it comes to those less fortunate because I will be rewarded for my generosity and love in the afterlife. Meanwhile, I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror, sleep at night, and provide an example of Christian ethic to my friends and family.

canigraduate · Nov 10, 2015

There isn't a whole lot of gray to this situation. If you see anyone assault another person, patient or not, it is your duty as a human being to stop it, or failing that, report it to the proper authorities. As a nurse, it is your legal responsibility to report this.

I understand that you are upset because we are chastising you, but it seems that you need to be reminded of your responsibility.

It doesn't matter what your manager's opinion of the situation is. If you use the facility's anonymous reporting system, the manager won't even know it's you.

It is cowardly and irresponsible to delay action in the face of an immediate threat because of the fear of possible future events.

I know it is trite, but imagine if the nurse was coming after someone you cared about. Would you sit back and allow it to happen? Of course not. If you found out about the assault later, would you let it slide? Of course not.

Please, step up and do the right thing.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 10, 2015

A big male nurse grabbed a struggling, intoxicated elder by the throat in front of me and pushed him back on the bed, growling "I told you to f'ing lie down!". I would normally have absolutely have no problem reporting this, except that we are in quasi-competition for the same job. I have little trust that the management will not see my disclosure as anything but self-serving and untrustworthy. The patient himself cannot make a complaint and the co-worker who was with me doesn't want to "borrow trouble". What would you do?

Ethics are ethics and the right thing to do is the right thing to do. I cannot imagine why a competition for a job enters into it at all. Reporting it is the right thing to do.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 10, 2015

There is no gray in this matter as you describe it; a patient was assualted by a nurse, it was observed by yourself and another nurse, it must be reported. Clear. Black and white with no gray.
It. Must. Be. Reported.
I suppose that the aftermath of that reporting could be a bit gray, oh well. I find that in the real world we are often called upon to do the right thing, to take the high moral ground, to stand in the gap for the least of these, etc and that we have no guarantees that the results of those good deeds will be pleasant for us in this lifetime.
At least in my personal situation I have a faith system which encourages me to do what is right when it comes to those less fortunate because I will be rewarded for my generosity and love in the afterlife. Meanwhile, I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror, sleep at night, and provide an example of Christian ethic to my friends and family.

I just wanted to point out that recent studies have shown that children from strongly religious families -- either Christian or Muslim -- are LESS likely to be altruistic than children from families who don't identify as religious.

Doing the right thing has very little to do with a faith system. And while your faith system may be very important to you, please keep it out of threads that aren't on the religion forum.

mc3, ASN, RN · Nov 10, 2015

Honestly, this sounds like someone's Ethics homework, personalized so we'd believe it. :no:

mc3:cat:

Karou · Nov 11, 2015

Nope, this is NOT a homework assignment and no, I have no concern about my career - nor my ethics. He will be reported. The patients need protection. My question has more to do with being taken dispassionately and seriously. The male nurse quickly laid groundwork for a defense after the incident, saying that the patient had swung at him. That is most certainly not the truth. But when I bring this forward to the manager, I worry that it will be a case of "he said, she said". And in the end, because it can be argued that I have an "axe to grind", I shall be totally discounted and nothing further will be done to rectify the situation. And how will that affect potential reporters of future incidences? I am glad for those of you whose world is so black and white. Mine is full of gray...

This whole thing is so fishy to me. You are coming up with as many reasons as you can to NOT report this. First it was your competition in the job, which you now sort of back pedal to clarify meant you are concerned you won't be taken seriously with your "axe to grind", rather than it jeopardizing your chances of getting the position.

That's a huge assumption to make. Abuse has to be taken seriously, even if your management finds your complaint well timed and suspicious in relation to the job application. Even if they find evidence lacking and don't pursue your complaint, it does document what you witnessed and can collectively build evidence of similar complaints that come up in the future. It's strange to me that you are basically saying that since nothing may come of it, it's a gray area and not reportable???

Please clarify- what is gray about it? Abuse IS black and white. Legally, ethically, you are MANDATED to report it. You aren't required to ensure that he gets the proper action taken against him- that's managements job to investigate and decide. You are mandated to report though.

morman · Nov 11, 2015

Before I disengage from all of you, let me reiterate that I have never said that I was NOT reporting - that is not an option for me nor has it ever been. Reread my comments!

What I was relating was the honest trepidation that I had in disclosing the incident from a position of weakness and how it may ultimately impact other "whistle blowers" in the future if no action was taken in this case. How was the best way to handle the situation? I've looked after the patient's well-being but am I expected to be oblivious to my own?

I created this account because I was looking for dialogue with my peers in a safe, anonymous setting. So the fact that the great majority of you are saying that I am fake and/or unethical, well, shame on you. That simplistic, hasty, censorious mob mentality is EXACTLY what I am concerned may happen to any reporting party - the "snitch" - whether it's myself or those who come after me.

So thank you, I guess, for the foreshadowing taste of things to come. Carry on...

mc3, ASN, RN · Nov 11, 2015

"I would normally have absolutely have no problem reporting this, except that we are in quasi-competition for the same job." quote - You

That says it right there. The fact that you "normally wouldn't have a problem, but....." and "except we are in a quasi-competition" gives us the impression that you hesitated, and even had to think it over. Your only "reason" was because you were in competition for a job.

That is inexcusable. Have you reported it yet?? It's been said many, many times - if you post something in an open forum, you might not want to hear what other see as the truth.

mc3:nurse:

ixchel · Nov 11, 2015

OP, I actually get what you're saying, and I'm not sure if it's your wording or what, but I'm not sure your point is being conveyed the way you mean it to.

My understanding is this -

You have put in for a promotion that jerkface put in for.

Because you are actively competing for this job slot, you are afraid of two things:

1. If it is known that YOU are reporting Jerkface, HE may lash back saying it never happened, and you're lying for the promotion.

2. If it doesn't play out that horrible way, you fear general retaliation from him, management, or coworkers in general due to the severity of the violation being reported, and the potential loss of his job.

I get it. It's a horrible spot to be in. I know you know ethically it must be reported. I also think the second witness needs to be part of that report as well. Honestly, I don't know how that's possible to do anonymously. If you did, and you put your own name and witness #2's name in it, it might appear you WEREN'T the one who reported it, and then would there be consequences to you? Idk.

I almost think maybe it would be good to go above your manager to report face to face to a person NOT involved in the promotion decision process, and make it known that beyond the person you report to, it is your hope to not be mentioned by name, due to the circumstances. That way you don't accidentally get in trouble for not reporting, and you doing put yourself in the he said/she said conundrum.

ixchel · Nov 11, 2015

Also, it might be strongly advised that you contact your malpractice insurer. They may have a better take on this, and good plan to dig you out of this mess without putting you on the chopping block.

Farawyn · Nov 11, 2015

What I was relating was the honest trepidation that I had in disclosing the incident from a position of weakness and how it may ultimately impact other "whistle blowers" in the future if no action was taken in this case. How was the best way to handle the situation? I've looked after the patient's well-being but am I expected to be oblivious to my own?
I created this account because I was looking for dialogue with my peers in a safe, anonymous setting. So the fact that the great majority of you are saying that I am fake and/or unethical, well, shame on you. That simplistic, hasty, censorious mob mentality is EXACTLY what I am concerned may happen to any reporting party - the "snitch" - whether it's myself or those who come after me.

Okay, so cover your own butt, and live in fear of doing the right thing because of possible repercussions. It's your mirror.