I am not in the medical field yet I would respectfully like to ask a quick question.

April, RN, BSN, RN · Apr 13, 2009

Please, never feel embarrassed to share your medical issues with your health care providers or ask for help. We see incontinence ALL the time so you are certainly not alone. With all the extreme things we see in the hospital, incontinence doesn't phase us!

Nurse_Hagatha · Apr 13, 2009

WHOA, HOLD ON! I object to the harshness of your statement, and I was a nurse assistant for years before becoming an RN, so I certainly know a bit about toileting a patient! What this gentleman (and that is certainly what he sounds like to me) deserves is an apology for the way he was treated - his incontinence is not a trivial matter to him, and deserves to be acknowledged and addressed. He even mentioned that he was told to remove wires and lines if he needed to - a pt with chect pains in the ER and he can remove his cardiac leads? And how would he know how to put them back on?

I meant no harshness in my statement. I was just expressing my take on it. I too was a CNA before becoming a nurse, and have always been kind to a fault where people have run me ragged and taken advantage of that kindness. Some people can be very manipulative. I've done for people who were perfectly able to do for themselves, and my back has the aches and pains to show for it. I still do help people, and I'm glad to do so without complaining to them about it or making them feel like a burden. However, when I know someone can do for themselves, I now push them a little harder to do it, but I'm not heartless. If the patient tells me they're in pain, or they're short of breath, etc, I'll help.

Also, I did not say that his incontinence was a trivial matter, but someone at 41 years old should be able to change their own attends or incontinence pad. I'd have to be in a heck of a lot of pain not to be able to do for myself, and maybe he was. If so, I apologize. If he had mentioned he needed help with the wires, I probably would have helped or had a male tech or nurse help him. I've been creeped out more than once in situations like this.

Also, as a RN, I haven't lost my toileting skills. It's just part of the job, and unfortunately not all RN's see it that way.

Flare, ASN, BSN · Apr 13, 2009

I've been in creepy situations where the person was more than able - granted - these were not people that were getting worked up for chest pain actively. I have encountered the charming souls that decided it was my job to clean up quite deliberate messes. I have encountered young individuals that have had some sort of issue with toileting (boy - sure was odd to apply a texas catheter for the first time with a plesant young man instructing me) I have had patients in advanced stages of dementia who have had absolutely no issues with incontinence. My point is that you never know who you're going to end up with in that bed. While the norm is that your typical 41 yo man should be able to control his bladder, we know for a fact that it is not always so. As earlier stated, throw in a little anxiety and tie him down like Gulliver from Gulliver's travels with leads and IV tubing (which probably adds to the anxiety of worrying if something is going to get messed to by moving around so much.) Add more fluids being given intravenously and adding to the incontinence problem and we have definitely strayed from the norm. I don't think that is was out of line to ask for a little assistance. If not just for the need for physical assistance - the need for a little emotional assistance sounds like it was there too.

James, I wish you good luck in finding a solution to your problem and I applaud your initiative in trying to step into our world and see things through our eyes.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Apr 13, 2009

Allow me to ask this, If a middle age woman came in with chest pains, was hooked up to the equipment in bed after waiting many hours (once again I know all of you get very busy) and was in the same situation and need, would you feel very uncomfortable and suspicious of the motivation of the woman who made this request of you?

Yes, I'd be suspicious, but I'd still help her. I'd be watching very carefully for any other manipulative behavior though. That's a sad truth, and it happens every single day in our ER. I don't think you were being manipulative James, but it happens.

Listing incontinence as a medical condition from the beginning would remove my suspicion, since most turkeys don't think that far ahead, and don't know the word for it if they did.

Again- James I'm not disbelieving you, but people come in with chest pain all the time just for a free sandwich and a nap. That's unthinkable to regular people, and ER nurses can be a bit cranky if called away from real sick people to tend to one of them. I don't think your nurse should have responded the way she did, but I know exactly what she was thinking when she said it.

Funny thing- a guy was booted out on his noggin from a strip club in our area once, and needed a head CT. This guy was slime, just disgusting, and insisted on help with every little thing, and a hand to hold during the CT. I did ALL of that just biting my tongue and nauseated. He was caressing my arm during the CT and doing this fake startle thing every time the table moved, expecting the "poor baby, you're alright" routine. TOO FAKE. But I shut up because he might have had a head bleed, and inappropriate because of it, not because he was just a skanky, filthy, dirty, swine. I put up with it, and hate that I did. It was the fastest way to diagnose him if he was ill, and also the fastest way to get him the hell out of the ER if he wasn't. The CT tech called security because he was touching me, and security looked in and waved (!!!) and walked back to the ER. So 20 minutes later when the CT was negative that security guy got to bandage my patient's little head boo-boo, and escort him to the door. I gave him a mental drop kick as he left.

So a lot of people get off on abusing the ER. There's a story for every day we're open. But we stick around because someone (you) might need help someday, and we'll be there to catch you if you fall. (Or change your drawers, whatever needs doing.) Seriously, we stay in the job to help people like you, and to provide dignity where none exists. You caught a bad nurse, or a good nurse on a bad day. If it was a good nurse and she recognizes herself here, she's probably crawling into the nearest hole about now. So I vote we talk about something else.

I like hearing about what we can do better, can we talk about backrubs or mouthcare or cranky visitors for awhile?

allnurses Guide · Apr 13, 2009

Can I say . . my first thought was propping a hand-held urinal? :coollook:

Instead of a brief.

steph

dishes, BSN, RN · Apr 13, 2009

One further thing, after being here I will be seeing a urologist and a neurologist if need be.

I hope you are able to get your medical coverage reinstated as mizfradd suggested. If you are going to be referred to a urologist different from the one you previously saw, you could ask your primary physician if you should see a urologist who has sub-speciality training in neuro-urology?

(google the speciality and your state to find names)

It helps to bring previous test results with you to your urology appointments, so if you or your primary physician do not have copies of the reports, you can obtain copies of them through the clinic/hospital that provided the tests.