I find it depressing...

[QuarterLife88, MSN, RN, NP]

that a lot of times in my clinical groups, the women around me will say how much they love having a male in the group because women are so "catty" and unfunny, or some such other crap (when plenty of men have been just as rude an awful, but for men it's called being "assertive"). As it is, I am wary of another female who would bash and write off fellow females like that. How many groups of men do you come across who would say that they would love a female in the group because other men suck? So why do we talk down about our own?

I just find it sad and little gross to be honest how much my female instructors will practically giggle and fawn all over a male student for making a smart answer (or even something mediocre), but when a female student is just as efficient and sharp, she will not get such praise. Apparently this happens in classrooms unrelated to nursing school as well, as there have been studies that teachers unconsciously encourage boys more academically than they do their female students.

I am not trying to start something. This is just my sad observation. I'm annoyed more than anything to be honest. It's that constant theme that female dominated areas *need* men to straighten us out or something, and that we must welcome more males because without them we'll drive each insane. I mean...UGH. It is nice to have a guy around sometimes to do the heavy lifting, but I am not lost without a man, and certainly do not need one around or even wish for one to spread out the male to female ratio.

As a female, I think the lot of us are quite extraordinary on our own, and I wish we could come together more instead of making such remarks.

/shrug

[damrcngrl95]

I have seen similar threads like this. We women don't prop each other up like we should. I'm talking about as a whole. We don't as a group say what is truly on our minds and that isn't always a bad thing. We will go to our other female friends and talk about how the other girl hurt our feelings. What we should have done was talked to the person who hurt our feelings. When we talk to others first and it gets back to the person we talked about it is seen as gossip whether we meant it that way or not. So now the bad situation is worse and nothing gets solved. I have noticed that when guys have a problem with someone most of the time they will take it up with that person. As women, we create our own distrust with each other. We are not bad people. I have had more hurtful things happen from men than women and yet I have found myself more forgiving toward men than women. I think that maybe I expect them to understand since they are female too.

I honestly think that as a group if we would just go to the other woman and have that " man to man" talk about what bothered us and kept it between us then we would find ourselves a lot more trusting. Instead, a girl can go have a frank talk with another girl and she stands the chance that the other girl is going to have a group talk starting off with " You're not going to believe what so and so said to me". Then it starts... The wonderful talking behind your back. How can we truly trust each other when we do this to each other? I prefer to hang out and have women friends. I don't have many, but they ones I do call friends are honest with me. If they have an issue with me they tell me and they don't go around talking about it behind my back to other mutual friends. I also do the same for them. I know of a lady that doesn't really like me, but I have the highest respect for her. She never tried to be two faced about it and she doesn't say crap about me behind my back. I'm just not her cup of tea and she's up front about it. I can live with that.

[rubato, ASN, RN]

I don't think we need men to straighten us out, I just think that, sometimes, we could take a cue from how men act with each other. Have you ever seen a group of men stand around cutting another man down for something stupid, like what he was wearing? Men just don't care about the stupid crap that women seem to. And, if a man has a problem with someone, he either ignores it and the person, or he handles it. I wish we women could just do this.

I have tons of female friends, but I pick the ones that don't gossip and act silly.

I have not experienced my instructors fawning over the men in my program. In my clinical group, it was the opposite. She was super hard on the one man in my group because he kept doing stupid stuff that made her crazy, like not reading his emails from her about what to do to be prepared for clinicals.

I am happy that men are becoming nurses but only because I think it's a profession that should be opened up to everyone. I don't think it has to be the old standard: women are nurses and men are doctors. Bologna. There are a lot of women becoming doctors and NPs and a lot of men becoming nurses. I think it's great!

Can't we all just get along?

[QuarterLife88, MSN, RN, NP]

Rubato, I too think it's great that everyone is branching out and ignoring the traditional gender roles. I do love it when I see male nurses and female doctors.

I don't think we need to act like men, or take cues though. And I don't believe the stereotype for one second that men just let things go and don't cut others down. They most certainly do, and I have been on the receiving end of it myself. I think society makes more excuses when men behave badly, vs when women behave badly and it gets processed through a different filter.

Strong assertive woman = *****.

Strong assertive man = leader.

I guess that's my point. That, and I grow tired and sad of seeing and hearing internalized misogyny coming from other women. Women saying that they can't stand to be around other women. Usually the problem is with them, not the other women.

I don't know, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with how women choose to communicate, after all, we just happen to be more social by nature, that's the way the female brain is. But it seems like people think we need to act more masculine in the way we behave in order to thrive. I don't like that mentality.

[damrcngrl95]

I don't think we need men to straighten us out, I just think that, sometimes, we could take a cue from how men act with each other. Have you ever seen a group of men stand around cutting another man down for something stupid, like what he was wearing? Men just don't care about the stupid crap that women seem to. And, if a man has a problem with someone, he either ignores it and the person, or he handles it. I wish we women could just do this.

I have tons of female friends, but I pick the ones that don't gossip and act silly.

I have not experienced my instructors fawning over the men in my program. In my clinical group, it was the opposite. She was super hard on the one man in my group because he kept doing stupid stuff that made her crazy, like not reading his emails from her about what to do to be prepared for clinicals.

I am happy that men are becoming nurses but only because I think it's a profession that should be opened up to everyone. I don't think it has to be the old standard: women are nurses and men are doctors. Bologna. There are a lot of women becoming doctors and NPs and a lot of men becoming nurses. I think it's great!

Can't we all just get along?

I agree with this too. I have tried to handle things in a more direct way. I find that my true friends appreciate this. I have also found that its ok to have the type of friends that you are friendly toward, but don't ever really get to know. Maybe you are just in the same social circles.

[truckinusa, BSN, LPN, RN]

I'm a not so attractive 37 year old male and I've found just the opposite. I get harassed by one female instructor in particular. It sucks because I hate when she plays favorites with the younger women that are closer to her age. I got away from her clinical group just by a fluke and it was so pleasant and enjoyable after that!

I had a few female students that were downright rude and mean to me in clinicals. Now that we have a tenative clinical schedule and I have an ideal clinical day they are facebooking me, texting me, etc like they are my best friend because they want my day! We are able to trade.

[chorkle]

A few disassociated comments--

OP says it is nice sometimes to have a guy around to do the heavy lifting. One might wish that OP found more use for guys than that. And many guys could tell OP, from experience, that being a guy has nothing to do, necessarily, with ability for heavy lifting. Yet this assumption is quite often made, resulting in partial disability to the guy, but not to the non-guy.

rubato seems to suggest (not in these words) that since men are less sensitive than women, men don't get involved in "the stupid crap" that women do. Some men could, from experience, enlighten rubato about how much they hide their sensitivity, exactly because of this stereotype--e.g., if your (male) charge nurse boasts this particular attitude, one must be careful about exposing one's sensitivity. "Can't we all just get along?" rubato asks. If we all could do that, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

QL88 says (women) "just happen to be more social by nature, that's the way the female brain is." One might like to suggest, if QL were open to listening and analyzing, that s/he consider more carefully, nurture and acculturation. If it were true that (women) "are" a certain way, by nature, that would be true across all cultures, would it not? Is QL88 prepared to suggest that it is, and to back this up with more than reported attitudes?

[InfirmiereJolie]

The one thing I thought when reading this is that in CALIFORNIA there are PLENTLY of male nurses There are many (or it seems to me) male pre-nursing students and nursing students too.

Maybe you should come to California?

[grpman]

I found your statement about men being handy only if "heavy lifting" is needed to be juvenile, unprofessional, and lacking social insight.

The real issue is how do you feel comfortable making an obvious sexist comment. Something tells me that you lack the insight to see the obvious, tootse (emphasis added).

[beingcaitlin]

I found your statement about men being handy only if "heavy lifting" is needed to be juvenile, unprofessional, and lacking social insight.

The real issue is how do you feel comfortable making an obvious sexist comment. Something tells me that you lack the insight to see the obvious, tootse (emphasis added).

What he said. And I'm a female.

[rubato, ASN, RN]

rubato seems to suggest (not in these words) that since men are less sensitive than women, men don't get involved in "the stupid crap" that women do. Some men could, from experience, enlighten rubato about how much they hide their sensitivity, exactly because of this stereotype--e.g., if your (male) charge nurse boasts this particular attitude, one must be careful about exposing one's sensitivity. "Can't we all just get along?" rubato asks. If we all could do that, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

You are correct. I was making a generalization of men and that's wrong. There are plenty of sensitive guys out there, my hubby included. There just doesn't seem to be as much backbiting pettiness.

And, I agree with grpman about the heavy lifting statement. It is kind of sad that the OP is trying to get women to feel good about their gender and then makes a sexist statement about men. Plus, I can lift more than most, if not all of the male nursing students in my class.