How Would You Report This Illegal Work Situation??

Nurses Relations

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Somewhat long, but very important please read!

So there was actually a thread on this not too long ago ( https://allnurses.com/nurse-colleague-patient/nursing-imposters-895231.html#post7674817 ) regarding those who pose as nurses but are not. As is known this is illegal but seems to be very difficult to enforce. I've actually never worked with or met anyone who claimed to be a nursing professional or rather falsely gave the impression of being one because after all you would clearly and swiftly be terminated or reported and face discipline, so of course most ''imposters'' are quite co-vert about their wrong-doings.

Like I have stated until now I have never been faced with such a person or situation. Unfortunately until now at my current job I work with one. I currently work with a nurse assistant who gives the false impression of being something she is not. Over my short time at this ''small research clinic'' I have learned that most people including some practitioners, staff in other departments, and most alarmingly patients have believed that she is either a nurse or doctor. She never identifies herself as an NA just tells people her first name, often-times never wears an ID and I have been told by my fellow co-workers that some patients will often ask her if she is the doctor or nurse and she will simply state ''no I'm not'' but will not identify her title. She has done this multiple, multiple times. A long-time patient even once asked me if she was a nurse or the clinic supervisor and I explained that she was not and her correct title. Many patients and other department staff unknowingly refer to her as one of the nurses. In fact I have witnessed her giving suggestive medical information to other employees from other departments because they some-times stop by and ask for info about something medical related.

Many of the MD's trust her because she has worked there with them for decades even when there were no nurses employed in the clinic and no nurse manager, so they have come to trust her over the high turnover of staff nurses and nursing management. That being said it seems as though they either truly don't know she's not a nurse or turn a blind eye to the fact just because she is getting the work done. I have been told by the only other staff member who has worked there as long as her (another NA) that the NA in question would take verbal orders from doctors and claim to be an LPN among other things. She herself said that she never knew she could speak up about someone posing as something they were not and so for many years stayed silent especially since often times there was no one to report it to.

I could not understand how management has allowed this woman to work there for the last 10+ years. What seems to be the catch is that this woman is seen as a model employee who can do no wrong and does whaterver the MD's ask for. But is very vague and crafty about what her actual job title is.

Unfortunately the current Nurse Manager knows about alot of this but does not want to take aggressive action because I believe she feels this employee has been there for a long time, alot of the MD's want her around, and she the NM believe because there are now nurses on staff that it is our issue and that if something were to happen patient-wise it's on us???

The real reason she does not want to discipline this employee is also like I said because she is a highly esteemed and long time employee who alot of MD's have worked with for a long time and one MD in particular will go after her (the NM) if she does anything to compromise the work this NA does for his research studies. I have even heard this same MD refer to this NA as the ''nurse'' to patients, and tell the patient that the nurse will come in to draw their blood and do the EKG. I have been told that this same MD has given this NA verbal orders to draw blood which is against policy.

This woman has also claimed to work at another hospital on an IV team, but as far as I know only nurses can work on IV teams? which leads me to wonder what other lies she tells people behind closed doors. I now feel more and more compelled to report this situation especially after recently hearing this MD refere to her a the nurse, I feel that enough is enough.

The problem is the NM is too scared to discipline or follow up on this NA and by her own admission especially does not want to ruffle feathers with a certain doctor. So basically I feel stuck between a professional obligation and current workplace culture. I have never worked in an environment where an NA had more clout over RNs just because her or she has worked their for a very long time and/or does a very good job at coming across as something she is not.

Because of this and a litany of other reasons I am trying to get out of there as fast as possible but I believe because of patient safety among other reasons I feel professionally obligated to report such a situation before something bad goes down, especially on my watch.

What would you do or what should I do?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Somewhat long, but very important please read!

So there was actually a thread on this not too long ago ( https://allnurses.com/nurse-colleague-patient/nursing-imposters-895231.html#post7674817 ) regarding those who pose as nurses but are not. As is known this is illegal but seems to be very difficult to enforce. I've actually never worked with or met anyone who claimed to be a nursing professional or rather falsely gave the impression of being one because after all you would clearly and swiftly be terminated or reported and face discipline, so of course most ''imposters'' are quite co-vert about their wrong-doings.

Like I have stated until now I have never been faced with such a person or situation. Unfortunately until now at my current job I work with one. I currently work with a nurse assistant who gives the false impression of being something she is not. Over my short time at this ''small research clinic'' I have learned that most people including some practitioners, staff in other departments, and most alarmingly patients have believed that she is either a nurse or doctor. She never identifies herself as an NA just tells people her first name, often-times never wears an ID and I have been told by my fellow co-workers that some patients will often ask her if she is the doctor or nurse and she will simply state ''no I'm not'' but will not identify her title. She has done this multiple, multiple times. A long-time patient even once asked me if she was a nurse or the clinic supervisor and I explained that she was not and her correct title. Many patients and other department staff unknowingly refer to her as one of the nurses. In fact I have witnessed her giving suggestive medical information to other employees from other departments because they some-times stop by and ask for info about something medical related.

Many of the MD's trust her because she has worked there with them for decades even when there were no nurses employed in the clinic and no nurse manager, so they have come to trust her over the high turnover of staff nurses and nursing management. That being said it seems as though they either truly don't know she's not a nurse or turn a blind eye to the fact just because she is getting the work done. I have been told by the only other staff member who has worked there as long as her (another NA) that the NA in question would take verbal orders from doctors and claim to be an LPN among other things. She herself said that she never knew she could speak up about someone posing as something they were not and so for many years stayed silent especially since often times there was no one to report it to.

I could not understand how management has allowed this woman to work there for the last 10+ years. What seems to be the catch is that this woman is seen as a model employee who can do no wrong and does whaterver the MD's ask for. But is very vague and crafty about what her actual job title is.

Unfortunately the current Nurse Manager knows about alot of this but does not want to take aggressive action because I believe she feels this employee has been there for a long time, alot of the MD's want her around, and she the NM believe because there are now nurses on staff that it is our issue and that if something were to happen patient-wise it's on us???

The real reason she does not want to discipline this employee is also like I said because she is a highly esteemed and long time employee who alot of MD's have worked with for a long time and one MD in particular will go after her (the NM) if she does anything to compromise the work this NA does for his research studies. I have even heard this same MD refer to this NA as the ''nurse'' to patients, and tell the patient that the nurse will come in to draw their blood and do the EKG. I have been told that this same MD has given this NA verbal orders to draw blood which is against policy.

This woman has also claimed to work at another hospital on an IV team, but as far as I know only nurses can work on IV teams? which leads me to wonder what other lies she tells people behind closed doors. I now feel more and more compelled to report this situation especially after recently hearing this MD refere to her a the nurse, I feel that enough is enough.

The problem is the NM is too scared to discipline or follow up on this NA and by her own admission especially does not want to ruffle feathers with a certain doctor. So basically I feel stuck between a professional obligation and current workplace culture. I have never worked in an environment where an NA had more clout over RNs just because her or she has worked their for a very long time and/or does a very good job at coming across as something she is not.

Because of this and a litany of other reasons I am trying to get out of there as fast as possible but I believe because of patient safety among other reasons I feel professionally obligated to report such a situation before something bad goes down, especially on my watch.

What would you do or what should I do?

As long as this person isn't actually telling people she's a doctor or nurse, she isn't doing anything wrong. She cannot be held responsible for what other people assume. "Suggestive medical information?" What does that even mean? If she's passing along information to which she has access to employees from other departments who have a legitimate need for that information, I don't see the problem.

Have YOU actually witnessed this person taking verbal orders or telling someone she was an LPN? If not, it's just hearsay. Are you sure the other NA who gave you this information was being completely truthful?

It sounds like whatever this person's job title is, she's doing a good job. The MDs and the manager trust her.

CNAs can start IVs and draw blood where I am. It's entirely possible that this woman worked somewhere in the past where this was allowed.

You sound a bit crafty yourself. Why are you so fired up about reporting this woman who everyone else seems to like, respect and get along with just fine? Could it be that you're a bit of a bully?

Thank you all for the very judgmental advice. I do not see how I can be jealous of a nursing assistant when I have several years of experience as a nurse. I was merely seeking advice on a situation that because I work over this employee I have the potential to become liable in. Let me remind you that although I explained the situation briefly in my OP none of you actually work in the environment that I do and therefore cannot accurately determine whether I am jealous or etc... I never said I disliked this employee, or that I unfairly reported her, in fact I said that she is a very good employee. Whether you believe it or not this is a situation that the other nurses I work with and the NM are aware of and have privately expressed concern over, that I do not have to prove because it is fact. Unless I am mistaken I thought this was a site where nurses could express their thoughts and concerns on a myriad of issues. I hope those of you who believe I am wrong also considered the possibility that if this employee in question does anything questionable to compromise patient safety the nurses will be liable, she is not employed under an independent LIP but rather an institution.

I have been on this site for many years and it seems as though too many members are far too quick to pass swift judgement and conclusions rather than to take critical lens, not to mention the surprisingly unwarranted name calling. Unfortunate. Have a nice day, and feel free to pass over this thread the next time you see it.

I did not hear any of that in her post. Jealous??? I think not.

Frustrated for sure. Concerned for employees possibly receiving medical advice/ patients receiving care out of her scope... that's what I hear.

Awesome! Thanks Been there, done that! I appreciate you for picking up on my concern!

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

OP, yes, we do understand that WE don't work with her...however, you have not stated ANYTHING that constitutes reporting her to the BON, thus effectively ending her career.

Ok, try this then: if it COMPELLS you, why don't you DISCUSS this with this person? When you over hear you coworker, ask to have a discussion with her and raise your concerns? See how that goes; it may or may NOT go well; do you REALLY want to do that since it's "bothering" you.

Most of us gave you sage advice and ways to look at it; your description gives me someone who is professional; I don't understand your plight; I don't because a) unless you seen her perform outside of her scope something she wasn't trained on and is stepping over to the licensed professional side and b) witnessed her stating "yes, I am a nurse/doctor" THEN, it does look like you have an ax to grind, or your coworker is bothersome to you-and few people-for NO reason, and it makes you all look slightly unprofessional, NOT the other way around.

What DO you want her to do-NOT be a professional??? At least what you wrote, displays that this person IS professional.

Step outside of your emotions and look at what you wrote...then you will understand how some people view what you wrote.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Thank you all for the very judgmental advice. I do not see how I can be jealous of a nursing assistant when I have several years of experience as a nurse. I was merely seeking advice on a situation that because I work over this employee I have the potential to become liable in. Let me remind you that although I explained the situation briefly in my OP none of you actually work in the environment that I do and therefore cannot accurately determine whether I am jealous or etc... I never said I disliked this employee, or that I unfairly reported her, in fact I said that she is a very good employee. Whether you believe it or not this is a situation that the other nurses I work with and the NM are aware of and have privately expressed concern over, that I do not have to prove because it is fact. Unless I am mistaken I thought this was a site where nurses could express their thoughts and concerns on a myriad of issues. I hope those of you who believe I am wrong also considered the possibility that if this employee in question does anything questionable to compromise patient safety the nurses will be liable, she is not employed under an independent LIP but rather an institution.

I have been on this site for many years and it seems as though too many members are far too quick to pass swift judgement and conclusions rather than to take critical lens, not to mention the surprisingly unwarranted name calling. Unfortunate. Have a nice day, and feel free to pass over this thread the next time you see it.

I didn't see a lot of judgmental advice. I did see several people telling you that, based on what you yourself had written, they didn't see grounds for you to "report" anyone. Disagreement with your plan does not constitute "judgmental." You asked for advice; you got it. The fact that you don't like the advice you sought does not make it wrong.

Rather than encouraging people to pass over your threads, you might try using the "Ignore" option on those of us whose advice you find to be particularly distasteful.

Specializes in Case Management, ICU, Telemetry.

My response might get flagged but...

It kinda seems like you are just "hating" on this person for whatever reason... I hear an undertone of jealousy and/or intimidation in your post.

She might just carry herself confidently, giving others the impression that she isn't "just an aid"...

She has been asked if she is a doctor and said no... Case closed.

Also, giving medical advice to staff isn't illegal or out of scope of practice, it becomes illegal/out of scope if she gives medical advice to patients.

Should she wear her ID and identify herself as the aid? Ya, definitely... But it's not the end of the world. You seem to be getting really upset about a pretty minor issue.

That being said, if I'm totally off the mark about there not being an issue- if she has worked there for that long and everyone likes her: don't even waste your energy. You will not win and you will bring a lot of negative attention to yourself. It's crappy but it's workplace politics.

Specializes in Case Management, ICU, Telemetry.

And I cannot agree more with the people who have already said:

DO NOT report her to the BON. She hasn't done anything blatantly illegal, harmful, malicious or wrong. If she ends up getting investigated for the issue that you are saying, the investigation will (in some states) always show up on her record. You could be ruining someone's career and effectively THEIR LIFE for no reason.

Specializes in Case Management, ICU, Telemetry.
Thank you all for the very judgmental advice. I do not see how I can be jealous of a nursing assistant when I have several years of experience as a nurse. I was merely seeking advice on a situation that because I work over this employee I have the potential to become liable in. Let me remind you that although I explained the situation briefly in my OP none of you actually work in the environment that I do and therefore cannot accurately determine whether I am jealous or etc... I never said I disliked this employee, or that I unfairly reported her, in fact I said that she is a very good employee. Whether you believe it or not this is a situation that the other nurses I work with and the NM are aware of and have privately expressed concern over, that I do not have to prove because it is fact. Unless I am mistaken I thought this was a site where nurses could express their thoughts and concerns on a myriad of issues. I hope those of you who believe I am wrong also considered the possibility that if this employee in question does anything questionable to compromise patient safety the nurses will be liable, she is not employed under an independent LIP but rather an institution.

I have been on this site for many years and it seems as though too many members are far too quick to pass swift judgement and conclusions rather than to take critical lens, not to mention the surprisingly unwarranted name calling. Unfortunate. Have a nice day, and feel free to pass over this thread the next time you see it.

You posted a thread asking for people's opinion. That is what you received- a lot of other peoples' opinions... Since a majority of the opinions seems to disagree with yours, instead of telling people to pass over a thread that you posted: perhaps re-evaluate your opinion?

[quote=not.done.yet;772659

Her status and the loyalty she has earned is making you unhappy and jealous. I suggest you either truly get over it and make friends with her (far more politically wise on your part than to go head to head) or go find another job where you are more likely to have the status you crave. I wish you all the best.

Seriously???? Status and loyalty, did you mean dishonest and fearful. I would be more than a little upset too. She's an aide, you are a nurse- I worked damn hard for my license and I would be upset if someone were walking around and giving out uneducated medical advice and letting patients think that she is a nurse and Yes that is exactly what she's doing and she knows it!! By the way, I was an aid for 4 years while going to school to become an RN, never did I lead a patient to believe that I was a nurse when I was an aid!!!

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Thank you all for the very judgmental advice. I do not see how I can be jealous of a nursing assistant when I have several years of experience as a nurse. I was merely seeking advice on a situation that because I work over this employee I have the potential to become liable in. Let me remind you that although I explained the situation briefly in my OP none of you actually work in the environment that I do and therefore cannot accurately determine whether I am jealous or etc... I never said I disliked this employee, or that I unfairly reported her, in fact I said that she is a very good employee. Whether you believe it or not this is a situation that the other nurses I work with and the NM are aware of and have privately expressed concern over, that I do not have to prove because it is fact. Unless I am mistaken I thought this was a site where nurses could express their thoughts and concerns on a myriad of issues. I hope those of you who believe I am wrong also considered the possibility that if this employee in question does anything questionable to compromise patient safety the nurses will be liable, she is not employed under an independent LIP but rather an institution.

I have been on this site for many years and it seems as though too many members are far too quick to pass swift judgement and conclusions rather than to take critical lens, not to mention the surprisingly unwarranted name calling. Unfortunate. Have a nice day, and feel free to pass over this thread the next time you see it.

I hear what you are saying but you haven't posted anything that is reportable. As I said this employee seems to walk a fine line. Ou have reported this to your manager it is her job to take it further. Maybe speak to HR? There has to be a physician/medical director that is in charge at the research facility that involves patients. Physicians refer to their office staff as nurses all the time as I stated in my post...HE is wrong not the staff member. You even mentioned that when she is asked if she is a nurse by the patients she answers no....that she doesn't extrapolate more isn't reportable.

YOU can call the board if you like but it won't go anywhere.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Sorry, I couldn't quote you; @ milfordmom HOWEVER, she is NOT leading ANYONE to believe she is a nurse; just because people want to believe she is a nurse because of a professional demeanor is NOT her doing. :no: And what "medical advice"? Since we are not there, we CAN'T make the assumption of ANYTHING; we don't know if she knows what she is talking about due to her years of experience or saying small talk; WHO KNOWS? We don't have any PROOF.

The only one that can report her IMO is the CNA who has heard her refer to herself as an LPN. Nothing so far from what I've seen you observe needs reporting to the BON..

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