How much do you owe in student loans?

[MJB2010]

I want to go back to school but I can't justify the cost since I am still paying on my loans. But, if I wait, the degree won't have much of a return on investment.

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

6 hours ago, londonflo said:

I would question your clinical skills and bedside-care knowledge to students in a prelicense program.

I agree that in many instances nurses that are teaching are more helpful to students when they have current experiences at the bedside. However, I know in my ADN program there were some lecture RNs and some clinical RNs. The clinical RNs were almost all currently practicing and had clinical groups with students on the floor. The RNs responsible primarily for lecture had MANY years of experience but most were no longer active in nursing. They were still able to very effectively teach the theory part of the course, where things like the pathophysiology and science behind things like electrolyte imbalances haven't necessarily changed drastically over the recent years. I don't think that people planning to teach later in their years is any knock on it, but these very smart ladies didn't have the energy to be at the bedside and were still able to lead the next generation of nurses in to new careers. 

[londonflo]

24 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

I know in my ADN program there were some lecture RNs and some clinical RNs. The clinical RNs were almost all currently practicing and had clinical groups with students on the floor. The RNs responsible primarily for lecture had MANY years of experience but most were no longer active in nursing.

Thank you for your comment. I am surprised by this as my experience with accreditation is that students would learn concurrently (lecture and clinical)  and the faculty should be active in BOTH realms.The rationale is to help students transition content from the classroom to the clinical setting. Otherwise you get "we heard this in lecture and on clinical we are seeing something else."   Even with foundational nursing content students hear "full bed bath, PROM 4 times a time" etc and students get faced with "the real world" although I hate that expression.

To run a nursing course in this age, you need to have a team teaching approach. Each teaches a specific area, and carries a clinical group of 10. When you have (4) groups of 10 you have 4 lecturers (each on top of their game) and 4 groups learning concurrently.

24 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

The RNs responsible primarily for lecture had MANY years of experience but most were no longer active in nursing.

BTW any program I was involved in demanded being active in nursing -- not working the floors but maybe Faith Community Nursing or similar extensions of a nursing role.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

7 hours ago, londonflo said:

Since you would have 40 years experience to bring to teaching NP programs I agree you would be an asset. However  at a license-level  program. I would question your clinical skills and bedside-care knowledge to students in a prelicense program. I keep reading on here that RN bedside experience has nothing to do with bedside nursing. PhD programs do not have a clinical component .  Online programs of course UOF and Walden will take anyone with a doctorate to boast 'all courses taught by a doctorally prepared RN' and to appease the creditation bodies. 

I am not saying you would not be asset to a program but just asking if you would take it to just keep working, not knowing what you don't know about the specialty of foundational education beyond your own experience. An NP MSN, PhD or not. is not an easy  entry to a community college program where most new RNs are taught today. We pride ourselves in delivering nurses into the workforce to provide our community with the nurses needed in our hospital, skilled nursing facilities, community health and school positions.

With regard to "magnet status" while many think it is great, I have clinically practiced in both magnet- and non magnet hospitals and just saw magnets have more levels of  self-important adminstrators.  I truly believe it is just a money grab from the ANCC to keep their coffers full and a hospital just touts it for PR and recruitment. 

I would of course do my best and make no assurances that the quality of my instruction would be any better than the quality of care that I currently provide (depending upon which of my clients that you talk to anywhere from outstanding to subpar would be the answer).  Still, it is my assertion that if I have not given up this mortal coil or do not find myself wandering the halls of a Medicaid retirement home in a dementia aided stupor that it is reasonable to suppose that I will be able to find employment somewhere paying something once I reach 70 (or above). Given that I am constantly threatening my significant other that I might at any time quit my job 300K per year job and go back into night time security for $8.00 per hour (perhaps my favorite all time job, one that I worked in college) and just default on my student loans and let the government garnish my wages and take my nursing licenses The wage that I find (at this hypothetical future job) is likely to be superior to the security gig.  

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

Consider getting gigs as an expert as a legal nurse consultant. Attorneys value our knowledge of health care and systems highly. There are many ways to use your nursing expertise in this work: behind-the-scenes chart review and advising attorneys for both plaintiff and defense, investigating literature,  identifying and vetting related experts for their opinions, testifying in depositions about standards of care and practice, educating judge and jury as a fact witness, and others, your choices. Check out the American Association of Legal Nurse Consultants for free access to their excellent journals and archives, info on classes, webinars, and conferences, and mentoring. 

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

16 hours ago, londonflo said:

To run a nursing course in this age, you need to have a team teaching approach. Each teaches a specific area, and carries a clinical group of 10. When you have (4) groups of 10 you have 4 lecturers (each on top of their game) and 4 groups learning concurrently.

The community college program I graduated from had 48 students accepted per semester, and then LPNs were brought in for the third and fourth semesters. With students repeating courses or taking time off, I think the average student count per semester was probably around 54. There were 4 primary lecture RNs for each semester and then about 8-10 adjunct faculty that lead clinical groups. They tried to keep our clinical groups to six students or less to maximize the ability of the instructor to have individual time with each student. For example, you could only pass meds on the nights that the instructor was with you, we did not pass meds with the floor RNs. Unless something really got held up, three students a shift could pass medications, so you would do meds one shift every week and the other shift you would be shadowing the primary RN to work on all the skills other than med administration. Some of the primary lecture RNs also had a clinical group, but not every semester. Most of the clinical faculty are part time or per diem at local hospitals, two of my coworkers in the ICU are adjunct clinical faculty in the program. It's a great set up and the program graduates nurses that are ready to hit the floor and work. The nurses that had 30+ years experience and were lecturing were a very important aspect and the information was well integrated, although of course there were "academic" vs "real world" examples all the time. 

[C.Love, MSN, NP]

londonflo

Specializes in oncology. Has 44 years experience.

Monday

14 hours ago, myoglobin said:

I had two job offers paying around 80K per year to teach online NP and RN content from major online schools.  You may not believe that this is appropriate, but if it is possible as a new grad it is not unlikely that with several more decades of experience that I might be able to obtain a similar position (with possibly additional education at that time). 

Since you would have 40 years experience to bring to teaching NP programs I agree you would be an asset. However  at a license-level  program. I would question your clinical skills and bedside-care knowledge to students in a prelicense program. I keep reading on here that RN bedside experience has nothing to do with bedside nursing. PhD programs do not have a clinical component .  online programs of course UOF and Walden will take anyone with a doctorate to boast 'all courses taught by a doctorally prepared RN' and to appease the creditation bodies. 

I am not saying you would not be asset to a program but just asking if you would take it to just keep working, not knowing what you don't know about the specialty of foundational education beyond your own experience. An NP MSN, PhD or not. is not an easy  entry to a community college program where most new RNs are taught today. We pride ourselves in delivering nurses into the workforce to provide our community with the nurses needed in our hospital, skilled nursing facilities, community health and school positions.

With regard to "magnet status" while many think it is great, I have clinically practiced in both magnet- and non magnet hospitals and just saw magnets have more levels of  self-important adminstrators.  I truly believe it is just a money grab from the ANCC to keep their coffers full and a hospital just touts it for PR and recruitment. 

 

An NP with years of psych. experience is the perfect person to teach that specialty in all the nursing programs including BSN and MSN NP. 

[C.Love, MSN, NP]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:38 PM, myoglobin said:

Well, I intend to keep working as a Psych NP well into my 80's.  Given that I'm currently 52 it is not entirely unreasonable that I might go back to school and earn an advanced degree such as a PhD that would let me also consider teaching (maybe in my 70's or 80's).  Given that many of my instructors were NP's with only a Masters (at major state universities) it is not unreasonable to assume that I might be able to gain such a position. Also, even as a new grad NP's I had two job offers paying around 80K per year to teach online NP and RN content from major online schools.  You may not believe that this is appropriate, but if it is possible as a new grad it is not unlikely that with several more decades of experience that I might be able to obtain a similar position (with possibly additional education at that time). 

 

On 3/8/2021 at 10:28 AM, londonflo said:

Since you would have 40 years experience to bring to teaching NP programs I agree you would be an asset. However  at a license-level  program. I would question your clinical skills and bedside-care knowledge to students in a prelicense program. I keep reading on here that RN bedside experience has nothing to do with bedside nursing. PhD programs do not have a clinical component .  Online programs of course UOF and Walden will take anyone with a doctorate to boast 'all courses taught by a doctorally prepared RN' and to appease the creditation bodies. 

I am not saying you would not be asset to a program but just asking if you would take it to just keep working, not knowing what you don't know about the specialty of foundational education beyond your own experience. An NP MSN, PhD or not. is not an easy  entry to a community college program where most new RNs are taught today. We pride ourselves in delivering nurses into the workforce to provide our community with the nurses needed in our hospital, skilled nursing facilities, community health and school positions.

With regard to "magnet status" while many think it is great, I have clinically practiced in both magnet- and non magnet hospitals and just saw magnets have more levels of  self-important adminstrators.  I truly believe it is just a money grab from the ANCC to keep their coffers full and a hospital just touts it for PR and recruitment. 

I think an NP with years of psych. experience will be the perfect teacher for the psyc. portion of nursing programs BSN and MSN-NP.

[londonflo]

52 minutes ago, C.Love said:

I think an NP with years of psych. experience will be the perfect teacher for the psyc. portion of nursing programs BSN

I respect his knowledge base but I keep reading on here that basic nursing education (bedside nursing) is not a basis for the NP. 

I also believe that unless you have a strong foundation in learning theories, test construction and clinical evaluation, the clinical experience guidance may lack an ability to tie it into the other courses -- We are not teaching our students to be NPs or independent practioners. NPs can wonderful enhance a program but they cannot carry the foundation courses. 

I would encourage the OP to contact a local nursing program now and ask about sharing his knowledge

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

3 hours ago, londonflo said:

I respect his knowledge base but I keep reading on here that basic nursing education (bedside nursing) is not a basis for the NP. 

I also believe that unless you have a strong foundation in learning theories, test construction and clinical evaluation, the clinical experience guidance may lack an ability to tie it into the other courses -- We are not teaching our students to be NPs or independent practioners. NPs can wonderful enhance a program but they cannot carry the foundation courses. 

I would encourage the OP to contact a local nursing program now and ask about sharing his knowledge

Again, I just talking about getting a job in my retirement years as an instructor if I need to.  It might be for a respectable school or one of he ones that are "for profit" who's standards are called into question by many here and elsewhere. Again, I had offers to teach ASN and BSN students as a first years Master's NP graduate. Thus, it is not unreasonable to suppose especially if I go back for a more advanced degree such as a PhD that I would be able to get a similar job in another 20 years or so  Perhaps, I would be a poor choice for such a job, but the job and paycheck would likely be available somewhere all the same.

[jeskarwr, ADN, BSN, RN]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:12 PM, Future.Derm.NP said:

Hey, would you mind on elaborating how you went about with this? I am interested in tuition reimbursement as my current option is to take out loans for my ABSN degree (no loans from undergrad) due to financial issues with family. 

Hey what rules are required to get tuition reimbursement? Like do you have to work a year for them? Are you allowed to leave after you graduate or do they make you stay a certain amount of time?

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

On 4/28/2021 at 8:44 PM, jeskarwr said:

Hey what rules are required to get tuition reimbursement? Like do you have to work a year for them? Are you allowed to leave after you graduate or do they make you stay a certain amount of time?

You generally have to be employed a certain amount of time prior to qualifying, then remain employed there a certain amount after graduation. It will vary by employer

ETA: the employer, if they have such a program, reserves the right to accept, or decline, any applicant for tuition assistance/reimbursement programs

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:48 PM, Hoosier_RN said:

You generally have to be employed a certain amount of time prior to qualifying, then remain employed there a certain amount after graduation. It will vary by employer

Also there are numerous "loop holes" that can make it impossible. For example most of my student loans were run up during my ASN and over 100 hours towards pharmacy.  Even though I went on to get a BSN, PMHNP which I paid out of pocket I was told that only loans accrued in the process of getting a BSN (non of my 150K) were eligible.