How many unvaccinated coworkers are you aware of?

iNurs5, CNA · Sep 19, 2021

With my personal experience taking a prescription that has been proven safe and effective for millions of women but for me, I'm less judgmental of people. I had medication (will not mention which one because some (doctors and) nurses might recognize me here) sent me to an ED. That med almost got me killed; on the other hand, it has been helping millions of women and has been proven to be safed and effective for many years. Doctors from different specialties came in to see me in less than a day. I had one nurse just for me in each shift. All the attention I craved for so long, I had one just for me. LOL. I'm kidding. No infections. No illicit drugs except levothyroxine and vitamins. My lab showed otherwise normal in many-body systems. I was and am at optimal weight. Not borderline skinny or overweight.

I don't protest that women shouldn't take that medication. I don't even post about it on social media because I don't want people to panic.Too bad I had it bad. I'm just grateful my organs weren't damaged. The doctors and nurses are truly lifesavers. My primary doctor stated I was unlucky and must avoid that drug for the rest of my life. I'm popular in lab places.

MunoRN, RN · Sep 19, 2021

On 9/17/2021 at 8:33 AM, Auqtu said:

You're the one who claimed if my perspective changed.
You must not read very much or are so one sided on the topic that you are unaware of the injuries this and other vaccines have...just check the CDC VAERS.
Its about time claims of "safe and effective" cease from being tossed around like candy at a parade when the science isn't settled. There have not been enough long term studies to know exactly what is happening to people's physiology....short term, we've seen plenty of injuries. Check the VAERS site. A GOOD RN knows to understand both sides.

VAERS is not a system for reporting confirmed or even suspected vaccine adverse effects.

VAERS is a system for reporting all medical events that occur after vaccination in order identify possible adverse effects.

On a macro level we actually have a pretty good idea of how many people will have certain health events in a given period of time. We know that a particular population will have x number of MIs, x number of strokes, x numer of PE's etc in a given time frame. The purpose of VAERS is to identify medical events that are occurring unexpectedly in those recently vaccinated so they can be further investigated.

RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P · Sep 20, 2021

4 hours ago, subee said:

1. You assumed and have made an "***" of yourself. 2. MD insurance rates have nothing to do with nursing since nurses don't practice medicine. 3. I used to be a DON in the olden days when a NYC hospital had a B.N. (baby nurse) program and I jumped to hire them because they had a solid 12 months of working only with babies. We really don't even need to use RN's in.a healthy baby nursery, IMHO. I was DON and never had to look for an OB hire. If there were only 2 new nursing grads in the entire country, I can guarantee you 1 of them will want to work in OB. . 4. Your argument that we don't have. pool to recruit from is fallacious. We have enough nurses. What we don't have is enough jobs attractive enough to get them back to work. 5. Large numbers of nurses are not going to be willing to forgo a good paycheck for something that will pay less than half if what they are making . They cannot afford to lose health insurance.

An *** I may very well be. That does not detract from the facts, which don't care about peoples feelings.

With regard to your statement that 50% of new grad RNs would want to work OB, can you provide a reference or data to support that claim? I would love to see the data. I was a little busy today, cutting grass and harvesting sweet potatoes, but I did get a chance to speak to a BSN student I had shadow me for a month in June in the ED. Her class has 45 that graduate in December. Imagine my surprise when she told me that 3, that's about 7%, want to work OB/L&D. I was expecting 22 or 23 based on your information.

As for not having jobs, I added a third reference at the bottom. There are more jobs than nurses, so again, please feel free to share your DATA not opinions.

My argument is fallacious? So, you, a former "Director of Nursing" disagree with the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN)? That's whose argument is "fallacious" not mine. That is their data, not mine. So sorry to burst your bubble. The other data was pulled from the American Journal of Medicine, again not me. Let me provide my two pieces of data with references to AGAIN to help provide DATA not opinion to make the case we are in the midst of a severe nursing shortage. To make matters worse AACN even points out we don't have the faculty to train enough new nurses.

I added a bonus 4th link you can click and and read for yourself as I am too tired to cut an past the data and my bride wants to watch a show.

In closing, to even suggest we don't have a shortage is at best to show oneself ill informed or at worst, to be straight up dishonest...now here are those sources again for your reading pleasure.

"There will be a shortage of 154,018 RNs by 2020 and 510,394 RNs by 2030; the South and West regions will have higher shortage ratios than Northeast and Midwest regions. This reflects a nearly 50% overall improvement when compared with the authors' prior study, and the low-performing states have improved from 18 "D" and 12 "F" grades as published earlier to 13 "D" and 1 "F" in this study. Although progress has been made, efforts to foster the pipelines for improving the nursing workforce need to be continued."

Reference

Zhang X, Tai D, Pforsich H, Lin VW. United States Registered Nurse Workforce Report Card and Shortage Forecast: A Revisit. Am J Med Qual. 2018 May/Jun;33(3):229-236. doi: 10.1177/1062860617738328. Epub 2017 Nov 28. PMID: 29183169.

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employment Projections 2019-2029, Registered Nursing (RN) is listed among the top occupations in terms of job growth through 2029. The RN workforce is expected to grow from 3 million in 2019 to 3.3 million in 2029, an increase of 221,900 or 7%. The Bureau also projects 175,900 openings for RNs each year through 2029 when nurse retirements and workforce exits are factored into the number of nurses needed in the U.S.

Nursing school enrollment is not growing fast enough to meet the projected demand for RN and APRN services.

Though AACN reported a 5.1% enrollment increase in entry-level baccalaureate programs in nursing in 2019, this increase is not sufficient to meet the projected demand for nursing services, including the need for more nurse faculty, researchers, and primary care providers.

A shortage of nursing school faculty is restricting nursing program enrollments.

According to AACN’s report on 2019-2020 Enrollment and Graduations in Baccalaureate and Graduate Programs in Nursing, U.S. nursing schools turned away 80,407 qualified applicants from baccalaureate and graduate nursing programs in 2019 due to insufficient number of faculty, clinical sites, classroom space, and clinical preceptors, as well as budget constraints. Almost two-thirds of the nursing schools responding to the survey pointed to a shortage of faculty and/or clinical preceptors as a reason for not accepting all qualified applicants into their programs.

Reference

AACN (Sep 2020) https://www.aacnnursing.org/News-Information/Fact-Sheets/Nursing-Shortage

According to the Nurse Journal, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing attributes the national shortage to four main reasons:

Nursing school enrollment is not keeping pace with projected demand. Even though enrollment is up, it's not keeping pace with the increase in need for nursing services.

We lack the necessary number of nursing school faculty members. Without enough teachers, thousands of people interested in joining the nursing workforce are unable to do so without degrees.

The rate of retirement for nurses is growing rapidly, as over half of the RN workforce is currently over 50 years old.

An aging population in the United States continues to drive more demand than ever seen for nursing services.

Reference

Nurse Journal August 4, 2021 https://nursejournal.org/articles/the-us-nursing-shortage-state-by-state-breakdown/

Bonus reference

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493175/

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 20, 2021

10 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

An *** I may very well be. That does not detract from the facts, which don't care about peoples feelings.

With regard to your statement that 50% of new grad RNs would want to work OB, can you provide a reference or data to support that claim? I would love to see the data. I was a little busy today, cutting grass and harvesting sweet potatoes, but I did get a chance to speak to a BSN student I had shadow me for a month in June in the ED. Her class has 45 that graduate in December. Imagine my surprise when she told me that 3, that's about 7%, want to work OB/L&D. I was expecting 22 or 23 based on your information.

As for not having jobs, I added a third reference at the bottom. There are more jobs than nurses, so again, please feel free to share your DATA not opinions.

My argument is fallacious? So, you, a former "Director of Nursing" disagree with the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN)? That's whose argument is "fallacious" not mine. That is their data, not mine. So sorry to burst your bubble. The other data was pulled from the American Journal of Medicine, again not me. Let me provide my two pieces of data with references to AGAIN to help provide DATA not opinion to make the case we are in the midst of a severe nursing shortage. To make matters worse AACN even points out we don't have the faculty to train enough new nurses.

I added a bonus 4th link you can click and and read for yourself as I am too tired to cut an past the data and my bride wants to watch a show.

In closing, to even suggest we don't have a shortage is at best to show oneself ill informed or at worst, to be straight up dishonest...now here are those sources again for your reading pleasure.

"There will be a shortage of 154,018 RNs by 2020 and 510,394 RNs by 2030; the South and West regions will have higher shortage ratios than Northeast and Midwest regions. This reflects a nearly 50% overall improvement when compared with the authors' prior study, and the low-performing states have improved from 18 "D" and 12 "F" grades as published earlier to 13 "D" and 1 "F" in this study. Although progress has been made, efforts to foster the pipelines for improving the nursing workforce need to be continued

Reference

Zhang X, Tai D, Pforsich H, Lin VW. United States Registered Nurse Workforce Report Card and Shortage Forecast: A Revisit. Am J Med Qual. 2018 May/Jun;33(3):229-236. doi: 10.1177/1062860617738328. Epub 2017 Nov 28. PMID: 29183169.

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employment Projections 2019-2029, Registered Nursing (RN) is listed among the top occupations in terms of job growth through 2029. The RN workforce is expected to grow from 3 million in 2019 to 3.3 million in 2029, an increase of 221,900 or 7%. The Bureau also projects 175,900 openings for RNs each year through 2029 when nurse retirements and workforce exits are factored into the number of nurses needed in the U.S.

Nursing school enrollment is not growing fast enough to meet the projected demand for RN and APRN services.

Though AACN reported a 5.1% enrollment increase in entry-level baccalaureate programs in nursing in 2019, this increase is not sufficient to meet the projected demand for nursing services, including the need for more nurse faculty, researchers, and primary care providers.

A shortage of nursing school faculty is restricting nursing program enrollments.

According to AACN’s report on 2019-2020 Enrollment and Graduations in Baccalaureate and Graduate Programs in Nursing, U.S. nursing schools turned away 80,407 qualified applicants from baccalaureate and graduate nursing programs in 2019 due to insufficient number of faculty, clinical sites, classroom space, and clinical preceptors, as well as budget constraints. Almost two-thirds of the nursing schools responding to the survey pointed to a shortage of faculty and/or clinical preceptors as a reason for not accepting all qualified applicants into their programs.

Reference

AACN (Sep 2020) https://www.aacnnursing.org/News-Information/Fact-Sheets/Nursing-Shortage

According to the Nurse Journal, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing attributes the national shortage to four main reasons:

Nursing school enrollment is not keeping pace with projected demand. Even though enrollment is up, it's not keeping pace with the increase in need for nursing services.

We lack the necessary number of nursing school faculty members. Without enough teachers, thousands of people interested in joining the nursing workforce are unable to do so without degrees.

The rate of retirement for nurses is growing rapidly, as over half of the RN workforce is currently over 50 years old.

An aging population in the United States continues to drive more demand than ever seen for nursing services.

Reference

Nurse Journal August 4, 2021 https://nursejournal.org/articles/the-us-nursing-shortage-state-by-state-breakdown/

Bonus reference

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493175/

Yes, yes. I have read the hysteria about the nursing shortage but you will find many threads right here on AN of new grads having difficulties finding work in many cities. Of course, Covid has changed the conversation somewhat because it arrived at the same time boomers were leaving. From what I hear and see here, I will stick with there is a shortage of attractive jobs. Rural areas are a different problem. They are tough recruits...for doctors and nurses. I don't believe that any nursing student in a class of 45 students knows the preferences of every student because students are all over the place during the clinical years and rarely meet as a single class. Our profession's largest lobby in D.C. doesn't even believe there is an acute shortage since they do nothing to help create attractive employment (I.e. staff ratios). There are plenty of nurses out there who want sane jobs but can't find any. We are living in insane times. We don't need a bunch of PhD's teaching undergrad nurses. That prevents CC''s from giving out BSN's and forces students to fork up money for online programs that don't even have public health clinical rotations. That's just a toy BSN. There's some fixes we could be doing but aren't because of some arcane .academic arguments. But mostly we need better employers and no Covid.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 20, 2021

Just now, subee said:

Yes, yes. I have read the hysteria about the nursing shortage but you will find many threads right here on AN of new grads having difficulties finding work in many cities. Of course, Covid has changed the conversation somewhat because it arrived at the same time boomers were leaving. From what I hear and see here, I will stick with there is a shortage of attractive jobs. Rural areas are a different problem. They are tough recruits...for doctors and nurses. I don't believe that any nursing student in a class of 45 students knows the preferences of every student because students are all over the place during the clinical years and rarely meet as a single class. Our profession's largest lobby in D.C. doesn't even believe there is an acute shortage since they do nothing to help create attractive employment (I.e. staff ratios). There are plenty of nurses out there who want sane jobs but can't find any. We are living in insane times. We don't need a bunch of PhD's teaching undergrad nurses. That prevents CC''s from giving out BSN's and forces students to fork up money for online programs that don't even have public health clinical rotations. That's just a toy BSN. There's some fixes we could be doing but aren't because of some arcane .academic arguments. But mostly we need better employers and no Covid.

P.S. Are medical students treated as punitively as nursing students? Do you think they have trouble finding preceptors, clinical sites, Ph.D requirements for instructors. If we were treated with the same reverence, we'd have better training and working conditions.

jive turkey · Sep 20, 2021

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

An *** I may very well be. That does not detract from the facts, which don't care about peoples feelings.

With regard to your statement that 50% of new grad RNs would want to work OB, can you provide a reference or data to support that claim? I would love to see the data. I was a little busy today, cutting grass and harvesting sweet potatoes, but I did get a chance to speak to a BSN student I had shadow me for a month in June in the ED. Her class has 45 that graduate in December. Imagine my surprise when she told me that 3, that's about 7%, want to work OB/L&D. I was expecting 22 or 23 based on your information.

As for not having jobs, I added a third reference at the bottom. There are more jobs than nurses, so again, please feel free to share your DATA not opinions.

My argument is fallacious? So, you, a former "Director of Nursing" disagree with the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN)? That's whose argument is "fallacious" not mine. That is their data, not mine. So sorry to burst your bubble. The other data was pulled from the American Journal of Medicine, again not me. Let me provide my two pieces of data with references to AGAIN to help provide DATA not opinion to make the case we are in the midst of a severe nursing shortage. To make matters worse AACN even points out we don't have the faculty to train enough new nurses.

I added a bonus 4th link you can click and and read for yourself as I am too tired to cut an past the data and my bride wants to watch a show.

In closing, to even suggest we don't have a shortage is at best to show oneself ill informed or at worst, to be straight up dishonest...now here are those sources again for your reading pleasure.

"There will be a shortage of 154,018 RNs by 2020 and 510,394 RNs by 2030; the South and West regions will have higher shortage ratios than Northeast and Midwest regions. This reflects a nearly 50% overall improvement when compared with the authors' prior study, and the low-performing states have improved from 18 "D" and 12 "F" grades as published earlier to 13 "D" and 1 "F" in this study. Although progress has been made, efforts to foster the pipelines for improving the nursing workforce need to be continued."

Reference

Zhang X, Tai D, Pforsich H, Lin VW. United States Registered Nurse Workforce Report Card and Shortage Forecast: A Revisit. Am J Med Qual. 2018 May/Jun;33(3):229-236. doi: 10.1177/1062860617738328. Epub 2017 Nov 28. PMID: 29183169.

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Employment Projections 2019-2029, Registered Nursing (RN) is listed among the top occupations in terms of job growth through 2029. The RN workforce is expected to grow from 3 million in 2019 to 3.3 million in 2029, an increase of 221,900 or 7%. The Bureau also projects 175,900 openings for RNs each year through 2029 when nurse retirements and workforce exits are factored into the number of nurses needed in the U.S.

Nursing school enrollment is not growing fast enough to meet the projected demand for RN and APRN services.

Though AACN reported a 5.1% enrollment increase in entry-level baccalaureate programs in nursing in 2019, this increase is not sufficient to meet the projected demand for nursing services, including the need for more nurse faculty, researchers, and primary care providers.

A shortage of nursing school faculty is restricting nursing program enrollments.

According to AACN’s report on 2019-2020 Enrollment and Graduations in Baccalaureate and Graduate Programs in Nursing, U.S. nursing schools turned away 80,407 qualified applicants from baccalaureate and graduate nursing programs in 2019 due to insufficient number of faculty, clinical sites, classroom space, and clinical preceptors, as well as budget constraints. Almost two-thirds of the nursing schools responding to the survey pointed to a shortage of faculty and/or clinical preceptors as a reason for not accepting all qualified applicants into their programs.

Reference

AACN (Sep 2020) https://www.aacnnursing.org/News-Information/Fact-Sheets/Nursing-Shortage

According to the Nurse Journal, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing attributes the national shortage to four main reasons:

Nursing school enrollment is not keeping pace with projected demand. Even though enrollment is up, it's not keeping pace with the increase in need for nursing services.

We lack the necessary number of nursing school faculty members. Without enough teachers, thousands of people interested in joining the nursing workforce are unable to do so without degrees.

The rate of retirement for nurses is growing rapidly, as over half of the RN workforce is currently over 50 years old.

An aging population in the United States continues to drive more demand than ever seen for nursing services.

Reference

Nurse Journal August 4, 2021 https://nursejournal.org/articles/the-us-nursing-shortage-state-by-state-breakdown/

Bonus reference

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493175/

LOL "bonus reference". Nothing like clear facts to counter emotional outbursts.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 20, 2021

Yep. Nursing shortage is definitely a thing. It's even been a business model of sorts.

Vaccination requirements from employers don't change the number of nurses available in their region. It changes which nurses meet their basic employment expectations. The vacancy in a specialty unit is a prized commodity for many nurses working in adjacent units or outpatient practice environments. Yes it is not optimal to have to train new staff, etc. It is also not optimal to have unvaccinated staff when there is a vaccine available and the contagion is currently killing people in unacceptable numbers.

allnurses Guide · Sep 20, 2021

On 9/18/2021 at 5:39 PM, queenanneslace said:

Well, they appear to be risking their jobs with their choices. Think of how caring and compassionate to patients they'll be while they're unemployed.

I hate the idea of vaccine mandate's however this is what happens when people fail to step up so that the situation can be contained.

I am vaccinated but even if I had hesitancy I would still get vaccinated. Why because I am an adult with adult responsibilities. House, kid in college, pets etc......I cannot just leave my job especially since it would be extremely difficult to get another job in my career field, Well I could always turn to dog grooming which I did before becoming a nurse.

Hppy

subee, MSN, CRNA · Sep 20, 2021

44 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

I hate the idea of vaccine mandate's however this is what happens when people fail to step up so that the situation can be contained.

I am vaccinated but even if I had hesitancy I would still get vaccinated. Why because I am an adult with adult responsibilities. House, kid in college, pets etc......I cannot just leave my job especially since it would be extremely difficult to get another job in my career field, Well I could always turn to dog grooming which I did before becoming a nurse.

Hppy

This. We have a SPECIAL ETHICAL OBLIGATION as health care workers to take this vaccine that has proven to be safe, and, like every other vaccine, has no long term sequelae. The thought of mandates makes me a little squeamish too but not as squeamish as a decade long love-affair with Covid for no logical reason. People who don't vax by this time with all the data available, are unreasonable should have a special island created just for them if they want to be menaces to society.

AreYouReallySure · Sep 21, 2021

On 9/10/2021 at 6:35 AM, DesiDani said:

I do. It will let the elephant in the room finally be noticed.

Medical reasons or not, why isn't that person removed from their post or at least placed in a noncontact role. That person can infect someone, or easily get infected by many if they work in a hospital. Sorry, but according to many HERE being unvaccinated is not good in a healthcare scenario. NO EXCEPTION! Perhaps short term disability would be best for this one coworker.

Your logic is skewed.
Ask yourself if a vaccinated person can catch covid?
Can a vaccinated individual, healthcare worker or not spread the virus?

If the answer is no to both questions, your logic is sound.

AreYouReallySure · Sep 21, 2021

23 hours ago, subee said:

This. We have a SPECIAL ETHICAL OBLIGATION as health care workers to take this vaccine that has proven to be safe, and, like every other vaccine, has no long term sequelae. The thought of mandates makes me a little squeamish too but not as squeamish as a decade long love-affair with Covid for no logical reason. People who don't vax by this time with all the data available, are unreasonable should have a special island created just for them if they want to be menaces to society.

I am sorry, I attended a seminar which showed this chart. I ask you to do exactly what I did and go to the WHO website and verify the stats.
I could not fault the stats presented.

Remember these stats are from May 2021, not current....but by golly, they pack a mighty punch.

Sorry, new to this technology, I am an old school type of nurse.
as per below.

AreYouReallySure · Sep 21, 2021

"People who don't vax by this time with all the data available, are unreasonable should have a special island created just for them if they want to be menaces to society. "

ROFL, aren't you describing what England did by sending people to USA and Australia all those years ago when those people fought against the rules, or were so poor they stole bread?

I live in Australia = an awesome Island.
You make a good point, Islands are fantastic fun and we all live together in harmony, no guns either - bonus !!