How do Hospitals save money changing 12 hr shifts into 8 hrs?

Marshall1 · May 23, 2013

I don't know about the economic part of it but I do know that where I live (in Georgia) many nurses are trying to get the hospitals to at least offer a choice between 12 hr and 8 hr shifts with the majority of nurses I know wanting to work 8 hrs. A lot of them don't work in hospitals because of the strict 12 hr policy. I see the benefits and the draw backs with either but if I had to chose I would go for the 8's.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 23, 2013

I'm a RN in the Bay Area, CA and there is a trend in the past 3 yrs that I've noticed. Hospitals are getting rid of 12 hr shifts and converting them to 8 hrs; can anyone tell me why? Does this save money from the Hospitals in the log end?

*** It doesn't save them money, it will cost them more a lot more. Lots of hospital have already tried and learned this. Despite this many in nursing administration will insist on re-inventing the wheel rather than learning from the mistakes of others.

In the past difficulty hiring nurses preventing such silliness. Now however, as a result of their false and self serving "nursing shortage" propaganda, there is a glut of nurses leaving administration free to engage in their fantasies.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 23, 2013

I don't know about the economic part of it but I do know that where I live (in Georgia) many nurses are trying to get the hospitals to at least offer a choice between 12 hr and 8 hr shifts with the majority of nurses I know wanting to work 8 hrs. A lot of them don't work in hospitals because of the strict 12 hr policy. I see the benefits and the draw backs with either but if I had to chose I would go for the 8's.

*** They don't offer 8's and 12's? Wow talk about a lack of concern for their staff. I have heard that hospital in the deep south don't treat or pay their nurses well. This is a good example.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 23, 2013

Two things jump to mind. First how tired is this nurse who is working 7 days in a row,

*** Speaking for myself. I work nights and the longer my stretch of shifts is the better rested I come to work. Currently I work 5 12 hour night shifts each pay period. The first shift I am exhausted since I rarely get much sleep during the day. The first time I try to sleep during he day results are very mixed but usually I don't sleep well converting back to nights. The first shift I will start after being awake since early that AM. The second shift I will start after poor, interrupted sleep of MAYBE 4-6 hours.However by the third night I have become nocturnal and usually come to work with 8 or even 9 hours of sleep. Thus the longer my stretch goes on the better rested I am each night.

NurseLatteDNP, MSN, DNP, RN · May 24, 2013

We actually did the opposite to save money. Every full time position with 8 hr shifts was 1 FTE, but full time 12 hr shifts are 0.8 FTE's. That equals into money saved for us.

I was one of the nurses that had to change my hours when schedules went to 12's. Overall most nurses liked having 4 days off, even though they are exhausted by day 3.

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · May 24, 2013

A) Working nights does not CAUSE cancer - it increases the RISK of cancer.

b) In my opinion, a return to at least the option of 8 hour shifts would bring older nurses back to the bedside.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · May 24, 2013

Here they went back to 8s at all of the hospitals about 2 years ago. I guess it is working OK, I don't work inside a hospital so I am not really privy to details first hand. We have three major hospital systems with about 14 acute care hospital sites not including government entities, a half dozen nursing schools and plethora of nurses. They have most nurses working 32 hours now to avoid paying benefits and OT, and that is how they save money. The only way to get benefits in a hospital nursing position here is in an exempt/management position now. Nursing homes still hire FT, so they have ironically become a preferred employer instead of the other way around. Mostly I have heard experienced nurses fight tooth and nail to get into the VA.

PMFB-RN, RN · May 24, 2013

Here they went back to 8s at all of the hospitals about 2 years ago. I guess it is working OK, I don't work inside a hospital so I am not really privy to details first hand. We have three major hospital systems with about 14 acute care hospital sites not including government entities, a half dozen nursing schools and plethora of nurses. They have most nurses working 32 hours now to avoid paying benefits and OT, and that is how they save money. The only way to get benefits in a hospital nursing position here is in an exempt/management position now. Nursing homes still hire FT, so they have ironically become a preferred employer instead of the other way around. Mostly I have heard experienced nurses fight tooth and nail to get into the VA.

*** How disturbing and very sad. They are really reaping the rewards from their false and self serving "nursing shortage" propaganda.

The irony is that all those who entered nursing to find a decent paying job with benefits in response to the never-existed-nursing-shortage are actually making it possible for hospitals to cut hours and benefits.

As for the VA, there are certainly slow to catch up with the rest of nursing but eventually they will realize that they can hire all the bright nurses they want and their benefits and working conditions will start to suffer.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · May 25, 2013

If there is a silver lining to be found, perhaps the veterans will be enjoying better care since the VA system can cherry pick the best and the brightest. Needless to say, they are also only hiring BSN and MSN prepared nurses, but I have heard they they do pay well based upon years of education.

I might have considered applying for a NP job at the VA myself, but I'm not willing to drive 20 minutes to get to work when I can walk or bike in less than 10!

brizendine5 · Sep 13, 2015

Ok. But what about the night shift nurses who have to work 4-5 nights per week? Do you think they are getting plenty of sleep? I'll tell you from experience, NO- they aren't. Dragging myself into work night after night with maybe 4 hrs of sleep takes a toll. It's horrible. It's torture. Nice for a day shifter though. I still work 8s. Now the swing shift, 3-11. Its better for sleeping, but I miss out on everything with my school age children. I don't see them very often. 12's are better in general for everyone, unless you're an 8 hr day shift. Must be nice, but I like to consider how Eveyone is effectted. Try working full time 8 hr night shifts for a month... You'll want to shoot yourself.

Pangea Reunited, ASN, RN · Sep 13, 2015

In California, unless your an employer with some type of exemption, you pay overtime after eight hours. Working three 12s automatically gives me 12 hours of overtime a week. If I worked five 8s, I wouldn't get it. That's the most significant reason I can think of why an employer might want to change things up.

DoGoodThenGo · Sep 13, 2015

Ok. But what about the night shift nurses who have to work 4-5 nights per week? Do you think they are getting plenty of sleep? I'll tell you from experience, NO- they aren't. Dragging myself into work night after night with maybe 4 hrs of sleep takes a toll. It's horrible. It's torture. Nice for a day shifter though. I still work 8s. Now the swing shift, 3-11. Its better for sleeping, but I miss out on everything with my school age children. I don't see them very often. 12's are better in general for everyone, unless you're an 8 hr day shift. Must be nice, but I like to consider how Eveyone is effectted. Try working full time 8 hr night shifts for a month... You'll want to shoot yourself.

If you were only working eight hours per shift why only four hours of sleep?

For the record once worked eights and did a good deal of nights (11-7) back in the day along with everyone else before 12's were invented. Managed to get enough sleep and still get to and do my work. This even with a hellish commute that often involved a bus, ferry, subway then walking several blocks.

Sounds to me as if many espousing 12 hour shifts are seeking to compel a hospital or facility into some sort of work life balance. That is front load all their work into three days so they can have the rest of week off to do whatever. Fair enough I suppose.

However courts have long rules employers do not owe any employee a promise of work life balance.

Nursing has long been dominated by women and after the more antediluvian hiring practices were outlawed or otherwise dropped (no married women, no single mothers, no women with children, etc...) places had to contend with nurses who were not just females, but women. That is they had husbands, children and other things going on outside the hospital.

A good/understanding head nurse/scheduler understood and tried to ensure you got shifts that worked with your life be it days, evenings or nights. Then as now many nurses were married to LE, FD and other men who also were employed by places where things were open 24/7 so to speak.

Many seem to forget or do not know that 12's really only came about as a way for places to deal with what was then a shortage of nurses. Getting shot of one shift allowed places to stretch nursing staff further. However nothing is set in stone and the primary focus is patient care, not the convenience of nursing staff.

A number of studies have looked at the incidence of error and other adverse situations for nurses working longer than ten hour shifts and there does seem to be some reason to worry. Reconsidering the 12-hour shift for nurses | Healthcare Traveler

Leaving aside problems at hospital/facility nurses still have to get home after working those 12 hours. Sadly (again) there have been instances when nurses driving home while zonked out have had accidents including deaths.