How do you deal with anti-OB people?

[ParasMom]

I'm half-way to obtaining my ADN and have recently discovered that there are people out there who are not only anti-OB/GYN but are against any medical interventions at all during pregnancy. I talked to my OB/GYN for over an hour last week about some of the things that are being told to pregnant women to scare them into not trusting their OBs or L/D nurses and that not delivering naturally is an "abnormal" birth ... yadda, yadda, yadda. Dr. E called them "nature nazis" which I laughed at. But more and more I am beginning to think that she has a point.

How do you deal with lay people and over-the-top doulas that will say anything to keep a woman from considering an epidural as an option for pain management or even delivering in a hospital?

My first reaction was to set the record straight to some of these women on one mommy board, but I have not only lost my moderator status, but been basically named a "troll" for not backing down from that stance that it is no one's business how a woman opts to deliver her child (we should respect any birth plan that a mom-to-be has made and not degrade her for opting for an epidural or trusting that her OB knows best). And that no one but a MD should give out medical advice to pregnant women.

I am just shocked. I've been told that since I hope to work LDPP one day that I will have to learn to deal with the, for lack of a better name, "nature nazis" real quick.

The question is, HOW. I am just at my wit's end. Are they really that common?

[geekgolightly, BSN, RN]

Who here is a medical nazi?

oh im just being contrary using the inverse terminology. nature nazi's really stuck in my craw. GRRRRR!

[prinsessa]

I just give the op the benefit of the doubt, especially from her second post on this thread. I certainly agree that RNs, doulas and midwives can give out info on pregnancy. I do have problems with lay-people giving out FALSE information, which they do all the time. I can't tell you the number of crazy obviously wrong stories I've heard from "doctors will force you to have a c-section so they can go play golf" to "my 23 week baby was born at 5 lbs".

There are bad medical providers out there, that's a given (just like there are bad doulas or lawyers or whatever). But I get so sick of the true crazies out there who try to scare women away from doctors, nurses and hospitals with untrue statements. You wouldn't believe how many women would come in with birth plans forbidding us from doing things that we haven't done for 20+ years anyways because a friend of a friend of a friend said when she was in labor..... They come in thinking that the nurses/docs/CNMs want to strap them to the bed, hook them up to a monitor, drug them, remove the baby surgically and wisk it away to the nursery so they can sneek it some formula to sabotage breastfeeding. That's what annoys the &^$* out of me. The vast majority of nurses and docs I have worked with in L&D support the patient in their wishes.

Do you have a problem with doctors giving out false information like they do all the time? My mom was told that she would HAVE to have a C-section because she was too small (5'3) and my brother was too big (he was under 9 lbs when he was born). She refused and gave birth to my brother lady partslly without any problems. When I was pregnant with my son, I told my OB that I wanted to give birth without any pain meds. She looked at me and said "well I wouldn't recommend that". When I told her that I gave birth to my daughter (after 36 hours of labor) naturally, she looked shocked and said "I don't know how you ladies do it".

Why should doctors push interventions that aren't necessary? Btw, I don't think all doctors are like this. And the term "nature nazi" or "breast nazi" is really offensive.

[fergus51]

oh im just being contrary using the inverse terminology. nature nazi's really stuck in my craw. GRRRRR!

OK. I actually think both types exist, but 99% of people are neither. Women who want the "natural" experience were always supported as much as possible and so were women who wanted epidurals where I've worked. I think that's how it should be right?

[geekgolightly, BSN, RN]

OK. I actually think both types exist, but 99% of people are neither. Women who want the "natural" experience were always supported as much as possible and so were women who wanted epidurals where I've worked. I think that's how it should be right?

of course it should be that way! people like you should be in every hospital. maybe i wouldn't have had such a rotten experience. these nurses were pretty nasty. i came in when i was spilling 2+ protein. did not plan a hospital birth adn i should have had a backup plan in place. they treated me shabbily and did everything i was afriad of... all the reasons i wanted to avoid a hospital in the first place. i dont think that 99% of LD nurses are "neither." i would say there is a much larger percentage of LD nurses who are anti-home birthing, anti-natural labor (makes for more work for them) At a hospital I recently shadowed the nurses were HAPPY when a mom chose formula feeding, saying it made less work for them. :angryfire these are two separate hospitals in two separate states.

[fergus51]

Do you have a problem with doctors giving out false information like they do all the time? My mom was told that she would HAVE to have a C-section because she was too small (5'3) and my brother was too big (he was under 9 lbs when he was born). She refused and gave birth to my brother lady partslly without any problems. When I was pregnant with my son, I told my OB that I wanted to give birth without any pain meds. She looked at me and said "well I wouldn't recommend that". When I told her that I gave birth to my daughter (after 36 hours of labor) naturally, she looked shocked and said "I don't know how you ladies do it".

Why should doctors push interventions that aren't necessary? Btw, I don't think all doctors are like this. And the term "nature nazi" or "breast nazi" is really offensive.

Yes I have a problem with docs giving out false info. In all fairness though, "Well I wouldn't recommend that" and "I don't know how you ladies do it" isn't false info, it's an indication of her birth philosophy. You obviously knew what you wanted and I doubt she/he forced you to get an epidural right? Your mother's doc was wrong too, fortunately she was able to have a good birth. Like I said already I agree there are bad docs out there. That just wasn't the topic of this thread. I can probably match you bad doc story for bad doc story (and come up with many bad nurse stories, bad doula stories, bad layperson stories, bad midwife stories and stories where the parent was wrong and the hc provider was right)...

What I find offensive is the way ALL health care providers are painted with the same brush by extremists (whatever you choose to call them) who want to bully women into giving birth a certain way. I'm tired of explaining again and again and again and again and again that I will support a woman's informed decision regardless of what it is.

[Indy, LPN, LVN]

In my opinion, the books I read could have been a direct detriment to either or both of my daughters had I followed their non-medical advice.

My first daughter was born a week late and nearly aspirated meconium; there was a good hunk of it in her little throat. She spent nearly 24 hours in the nursery incubator getting that straightened out, and had problems with her temperature regulation. The nurses offered me a pump, but I was pretty intimidated by it so they fed my baby during this time. Why? Because they have to keep the child's blood sugar up to avoid brain damage. When she was more stable, she had no problems latching on and feeding.

I was very entranced by the idea of midwives from a feminist standpoint based on my reading, and had daughter #1 been born at home, well, she'd have been in serious trouble. With daughter # 2, my water broke but it was a good 24 hours before labor progressed, and even then it took large amounts of pitocin to get it going anywhere. She was right about the due date, thank goodness. I'd hat to think I would have been in favor of birth with her in a less than "hospital-clean" environment, considering how long I went with the amniotic fluid leaking steadily.

Now I don't want people to take things like epidurals lightly; you can be allergic to caine-type drugs and it'll be a really bad day. Or you can get an epidural that leaves hot spots and good god does that hurt. And if you're really short-waisted, the epidural can affect your diaphragm and make it difficult to breathe. The benefits of having less stress are worthwhile to some people, don't judge those people because they didn't want to go the time honored route of huffnpuff birth. (Sorry, that's what I call it.)

Not everyone has a supportive spouse who will learn breathing techniques with them, and massage their back and legs, and such. Some of us are silly and paranoid of people sticking needles in their backs and wind up asking for things like Demerol, then promptly forgetting that they are in childbirth at all. We silly people need good nurses who will educate us. Even when we waltz in and say, Oh god no, don't give me an epidural.

There are always gonna be patients you can't please. But if they tell you something, be ready to ask, "why?" and let them explain. A little tip I learned from school that is still serving me well is to let the patient know my goals for them, so they know why I'm doing whatever it is. With an end stage COPD'er, it might be :"I want you breathing decently and I don't want you to be in any pain, because that creates stress and it's harder to breathe when you hurt. K?" The first guy I said that to said, "oh thank god, you know what I need." I haven't worked OB yet but I'm kind of blunt so I might say something like "Okay, my goal is to have two live, healthy patients at the end of this process. That's you and your baby. All the things I need to do are geared towards making sure that this happens... " and move on to the subject of pain control. Note, I haven't worked in labor and delivery yet.

A friend of mine used to want to BE a CNM. She tells some interesting stories from our local La Leche League. Things like how they will tell new moms to breastfeed well into the toddler years and deny the possibility of "nursing mouth" which is similar to "bottle mouth". Well, my friend's child has an ungodly amount of dental work now, and she's not five yet, from nursing too much; having seen the diet this kid eats I don't see where else it would come from. It's disturbing to me as us cardiac nurses know exactly how SBE can be a direct result of bad teeth.

Heck, most people don't even know that letting a baby get cold too often or too long can cause brain damage. And if the local la leche league says that's bullhockey fed to you by the medical profession, well there are gonna be some kids out there with learning disabilities whose parents are just that gullible.

Since people believe what other people tell them, those who use influence of ANY kind to peddle bad advice, have a special place in hell just for them, in my opinion.

[fergus51]

of course it should be that way! people like you should be in every hospital. maybe i wouldn't have had such a rotten experience. these nurses were pretty nasty. i came in when i was spilling 2+ protein. did not plan a hospital birth adn i should have had a backup plan in place. they treated me shabbily and did everything i was afriad of... all the reasons i wanted to avoid a hospital in the first place. i dont think that 99% of LD nurses are "neither." i would say there is a much larger percentage of LD nurses who are anti-home birthing, anti-natural labor (makes for more work for them) At a hospital I recently shadowed the nurses were HAPPY when a mom chose formula feeding, saying it made less work for them. :angryfire these are two separate hospitals in two separate states.

Those nurses are no better than the bf "advocates" who use guilt and intimidation to get women to breastfeeding when they don't want to. Hopefully the women choosing to formula or breast feed are doing it because that's what's best for them.

[bluesky, BSN, RN]

I am definitely not an L&D nurse, nor do I ever plan on it. I did just want to mention my own experience with childbirth, though. I was completely gung ho about having an epidural ! I wanted one, and I wanted it now! My OB was actually pretty conservative about it and even turned the sucker off after a lot of protest because of my failure to progress... point after which I had an extremely painful anterior delivery. I mean he could have easily made the extra cash and coerced me into a cesarian which he most certainly didn't. I was begging for more meds, let me tell you!!! The nurses also were pretty consistent about bringing my son in to breastfeed and never once encouraged me to take the "easy" way out.

I never felt pressured either way, to be completely honest.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

i would say there is a much larger percentage of LD nurses who are anti-home birthing, anti-natural labor (makes for more work for them)QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more with you on this: When I worked in a No. CA teaching hospital in the 70's and 80's, we did NO, repeat, NO, epidurals for labor. Three hundred or so births a month and never an epidural. We worked out butts off. I find that being "supportive" of a blocked laboring patient actually requires less work. It's tempting to let the drug do its thing while staff does only what they must, such as vitals, assessments, etc. When the natural labor patient comes in, I personally love it. It's so much more challenging to do labor coaching, get FHT's when the mom is in other-than-the-usual positions. I always feel like I did make a difference. On the other hand, I've had the experience several times to have a home birth patient come in after many hours of not delivering at home for whatever reason (pushing 6 hours) and have the people with her tell me what I can and cannot do (no IV, for example, and No pitocin.) Really, you have to wonder why they even came in at all, if they aren't going to allow us to do the one or two little things which might make a difference.

I'm really not sure to what you refer when you make the statement that natural labor patients make less work for the nurses. Could you please explain?

[grannynurse FNP student]

I know my experience is extremely outdated because my daughter was born in 1967. I had a wonderful experience with an English nurse mid-wife, even though she could not practice here in the states. She was very supportive, as were the nurses on the other two shifts. I had a epiidural and while it didn't take all my pain away, it sure helped. My next experience with L & D was when my three grandchildren were born, 1991, 1994, 1997. My daughter and SIL had a wonderful experience with the birth of my three grandchildren. I could have been there but opted to allow the two of them to share this wonderful experience by themselves, as did my SIL's Mom. We kept each other company in the waiting area. I have never had to deal with the NN but have heard tales about them. And I have visited message boards that they reign supreme on and tell horror stories and misrepresentations. And it is obvious they are very tall tales. It is too bad that some people fall prey to their misrepresentations. And it is equally unfortunate the there are some OBs that also ignore their patient's wishes.

Grannynurse:balloons:

[Cienna2000]

I'm pre-nursing, but with my hubby's step-SIL, I let it go in one ear and out the other. I was not a normal low-risk pregnancy to start with, and the local midwives only do home deliveries (which I am not comfortable with since I live 50 minutes from the nearest hospital). I can understand how as a L&D nurse this could be incredibly frustrating to deal with.

As it was, my daughter was delivered by c-section at 31w0d due to pre-eclampsia. According to the umbilical dopplers my daughter wouldn't have survived contractions. My daughter and I were very fortunate to have VERY good nurses during our stays.

What'ds really kind of funny though is step-SIL is all for natural labor with midwives but did not breastfeed any of her kids for more than a few days.

The breast nazi of a LC I dealt with in the hospital though drove me nuts. My milk never came in due to a variety of reasons (all the meds that kept me pregnant from 28 to 31 weeks according to my OB and daughter's neonatologist) and this LC actually told me if I didn't get my milk in my daughter would die. Guess she was wrong because 15 months and no breast milk later my toddler is completely healthy and happy.

[geekgolightly, BSN, RN]

I'm really not sure to what you refer when you make the statement that natural labor patients make less work for the nurses. Could you please explain?

I thinkl I was unclear? I said that it appears that the nurses I shadowed and the ones I labored under were wanting me to get an epidural, were happy when someone formula fed because it was less work (PP). Was I unclear? I was writing fast before I left the house....