How do you deal with anti-OB people?

Nurses General Nursing

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I'm half-way to obtaining my ADN and have recently discovered that there are people out there who are not only anti-OB/GYN but are against any medical interventions at all during pregnancy. I talked to my OB/GYN for over an hour last week about some of the things that are being told to pregnant women to scare them into not trusting their OBs or L/D nurses and that not delivering naturally is an "abnormal" birth ... yadda, yadda, yadda. Dr. E called them "nature nazis" which I laughed at. But more and more I am beginning to think that she has a point.

How do you deal with lay people and over-the-top doulas that will say anything to keep a woman from considering an epidural as an option for pain management or even delivering in a hospital?

My first reaction was to set the record straight to some of these women on one mommy board, but I have not only lost my moderator status, but been basically named a "troll" for not backing down from that stance that it is no one's business how a woman opts to deliver her child (we should respect any birth plan that a mom-to-be has made and not degrade her for opting for an epidural or trusting that her OB knows best). And that no one but a MD should give out medical advice to pregnant women.

I am just shocked. I've been told that since I hope to work LDPP one day that I will have to learn to deal with the, for lack of a better name, "nature nazis" real quick.

The question is, HOW. I am just at my wit's end. Are they really that common?

Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.
If I want pain meds I will ask, please don't offer them. Drs, CNMs and nurses need to respect a patients decision. QUOTE]

The problem with that is this: We are mandated to assess pain and the management of it on a very regular and frequent basis. So, your Labor Nurse is required to ask you about it. Part of that would be to make the availability of pain medication known to you. Sadly, we can't just go in and take a peek at your non-verbal clues; We have to discuss it with you. So when that happens, please do not take offense...just say, no thank you, I'm doing fine with my breathing; walking, tubbing, whatever.

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These patients will not show up in your L&D with any regularity.

We recently got a 'no-doc' who had been dumped by her NM at 41.3 becuase she was showing no signs of going in to labor (and I was very surprised to hear he NM wasn't working with a Doc somewhere).

Even at my place, with a huge # of deliveries, it is not common to have these pts show up. I don't know where they go when they fall off the normal pregnancy wagon- perhaps with a birthing center in town.

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" "I can't believe she's not breastfeeding"(to be fair those are really "breast nazi's") "

Or they are caring people who are advocating for the child who has no voice in the matter. It is better for your infant to be breastfed if YOU are a smoker than it is to formula feed them. I definitely do not think that it is okay to judge somebody, especially behind their back--as would be the case if you were saying "I can't believe she's not breastfeeding" but I do think that we need to realize that our culture really has it backwards when it comes to feeding infants--and women and children have a right to the facts, not to get formula pushed down their throats.

Have you heard of this article? Watch your language, breast is not best. Breastfeeding is what is normal and expected. Formula feeding should be considered substandard and should be used only as I believe (is it a WHO statistic?) a fourth-line feeding option 1.nursing from the mother 2. mother's pumped milk 3.pumped donor milk 4. formula. I don't think it's fair to keep THIS information from women. I know this isn't a breastfeeding advocacy forum but I had to reply to those comments that were made. When you see the statistics on the detrimental effect that giving out just formula company bags (no formula) has on nursing rates I don't understand why you would be advocating keeping those in hospitals to give out to new moms. I don't think that women need to be made to feel bad for choosing to formula feed. I do think that women have a right to be PROPERLY informed.

I'm working from memory here and can find some more links if anyone wants them.

http://www.het.brown.edu/people/kjp/stuff/watch_your_language.htm

FYI i think that you deal with anti O.B. people the same way you deal with anyone who is closed minded about any topic. Patience and good information.

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By trying to force women to see it "your" way you are using the same tactics as those you describe as nature nazis. It is possible to have a birth without pain meds (if a woman so chooses) or other interventions (i.e., IV, continuous monitoring, etc.). And many women do successfully deliver at home with a midwife. Personally, I would never see an OB unless I had a high risk pg. I chose a midwife because she shared my own views. Although to be fair the docs that practice with the midwives do too. My view, for me personally, is that unless there are problems I don't want any interventions. If I want pain meds I will ask, please don't offer them. Drs, CNMs and nurses need to respect a patients decision. If it results in a bad outcome and you have informed the patient of the risks you have done your job. You cannot force someone to see it your way.

I don't think she's trying to "force someone to see it her way", I think she's just talking about giving truthful information to counteract outright lies. A patient who has been lied to by a nature nazi or an interventionist is not making informed decisions and it's our job to make sure that they do.

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The problem with that is this: We are mandated to assess pain and the management of it on a very regular and frequent basis. So, your Labor Nurse is required to ask you about it. Part of that would be to make the availability of pain medication known to you. Sadly, we can't just go in and take a peek at your non-verbal clues; We have to discuss it with you. So when that happens, please do not take offense...just say, no thank you, I'm doing fine with my breathing; walking, tubbing, whatever.

Asking about pain is one thing. But when a mom has said "Don't offer me pain meds, I will ask" then no one should be asking if the pt wants pain meds every hour. I am not talking about discussing options when the pt is admitted or during pg.

With the birth of my own children, I must have been pretty lucky. Except for when I was admitted no one asked how bad the pain is. The nurse did ask about pain management and I told her my feelings. Not one nurse tried to push meds on me during my deliveries. I had great nurses. Of course, my CNM was in with me during most of the labor. Once I was confirmed in labor, the CNM came in and stayed. Except for #2 who went so quick she almost didn't make it (under 2 hours from start to finish). But my nurses were great, my birth plan was in my chart and it was a small hospital. In fact, the nurses who were with my with #2, both labor and PP, remembered me when I went to have #3. #1 was at a different hospital, but still with great nurses. The nurses respect for my decisions helped make my birth experiences wonderful. I cannot imagine how I would have felt to have meds and interventions pushed at me.

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I don't think she's trying to "force someone to see it her way", I think she's just talking about giving truthful information to counteract outright lies. A patient who has been lied to by a nature nazi or an interventionist is not making informed decisions and it's our job to make sure that they do.

I guess the post just rubbed me the wrong way, especially that no one but a MD should give advice to pg women. What about RN's and CNM's? Most women who opt to have low intervention and no pain meds have done tons of research. Giving out information is one thing but expecting someone to blindly trust a doctor is another. And some drs are to blame, i.e., those whose section rate increases with their plans (doctor convenience) or an episiotomy for a 6 lb baby so that the mom doesn't suffer severe tears. When stories like these are common who can blame the nature nazis.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I don't think she's trying to "force someone to see it her way", I think she's just talking about giving truthful information to counteract outright lies. A patient who has been lied to by a nature nazi or an interventionist is not making informed decisions and it's our job to make sure that they do.
BOTTOM LINE! Well-said Fergus.
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I guess the post just rubbed me the wrong way, especially that no one but a MD should give advice to pg women. What about RN's and CNM's? Most women who opt to have low intervention and no pain meds have done tons of research. Giving out information is one thing but expecting someone to blindly trust a doctor is another. And some drs are to blame, i.e., those whose section rate increases with their plans (doctor convenience) or an episiotomy for a 6 lb baby so that the mom doesn't suffer severe tears. When stories like these are common who can blame the nature nazis.

I just give the op the benefit of the doubt, especially from her second post on this thread. I certainly agree that RNs, doulas and midwives can give out info on pregnancy. I do have problems with lay-people giving out FALSE information, which they do all the time. I can't tell you the number of crazy obviously wrong stories I've heard from "doctors will force you to have a c-section so they can go play golf" to "my 23 week baby was born at 5 lbs".

There are bad medical providers out there, that's a given (just like there are bad doulas or lawyers or whatever). But I get so sick of the true crazies out there who try to scare women away from doctors, nurses and hospitals with untrue statements. You wouldn't believe how many women would come in with birth plans forbidding us from doing things that we haven't done for 20+ years anyways because a friend of a friend of a friend said when she was in labor..... They come in thinking that the nurses/docs/CNMs want to strap them to the bed, hook them up to a monitor, drug them, remove the baby surgically and wisk it away to the nursery so they can sneek it some formula to sabotage breastfeeding. That's what annoys the &^$* out of me. The vast majority of nurses and docs I have worked with in L&D support the patient in their wishes.

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Specializes in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma.

just FYI the doctors and nurses DID whisk away my baby and give him formula without my permission and dissuaded me from breastfeeding. not farfetched at all. happened in 2003 in houston texas.

if i get called a nature nazi or breast nazi so be it; i feel far more comfortable with that than advocating for medical interventions that can be avoided. you medical nazis really give me the willies.

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Asking about pain is one thing. But when a mom has said "Don't offer me pain meds, I will ask" then no one should be asking if the pt wants pain meds every hour. I am not talking about discussing options when the pt is admitted or during pg.

With the birth of my own children, I must have been pretty lucky. Except for when I was admitted no one asked how bad the pain is. The nurse did ask about pain management and I told her my feelings. Not one nurse tried to push meds on me during my deliveries. I had great nurses. Of course, my CNM was in with me during most of the labor. Once I was confirmed in labor, the CNM came in and stayed. Except for #2 who went so quick she almost didn't make it (under 2 hours from start to finish). But my nurses were great, my birth plan was in my chart and it was a small hospital. In fact, the nurses who were with my with #2, both labor and PP, remembered me when I went to have #3. #1 was at a different hospital, but still with great nurses. The nurses respect for my decisions helped make my birth experiences wonderful. I cannot imagine how I would have felt to have meds and interventions pushed at me.

But the difference is, you were WELL-INFORMED and WELL-EDUCATED about your decision. I think the OP is concerned with people who come in with false information given out by someone other than a medical or otherwise childbirth-trained professional. I get the idea from reading this thread that the OP is not at all concerned with changing the minds of those educated, well-informed mothers who choose a different route than what she would choose. Just my humble opinion!

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Specializes in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma.
But the difference is, you were WELL-INFORMED and WELL-EDUCATED about your decision. I think the OP is concerned with people who come in with false information given out by someone other than a medical or otherwise childbirth-trained professional. I get the idea from reading this thread that the OP is not at all concerned with changing the minds of those educated, well-informed mothers who choose a different route than what she would choose. Just my humble opinion!

sure, and calling an enire movement of people NATURE NAZIs goes really far to show her open mindedness and concern for whats best for the patient.

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you medical nazis really give me the willies.

Who here is a medical nazi?

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