Hospital nursing programs

[sunnyjohn]

I am going to beg the moderators pardon and re-post this here in the hope that I will get a few responses.

I am looking at an MPH program along with nursing. A thesis would be needed.

I am looking at the present move to develop hospital-based nursing programs affiliated with local community colleges or universities. These programs would award an ADN or BSN. These programs are developed and run by Nurse Educators.

They would be similar to hospital diploma programs of the past, but they would award an ADN or BSN.

In my research I have learned that the shortage of nursing instructors have limited the expansion of nursing programs nationwide. Using this model a hospital would assume the total clinical training of nursing students from pre-clinical skills to graduation. The hospital would use present RN staff as clinical instructors.

In order to gain admission to the model a pre-nursing student would have to meet the admission, college and nursing prerequisite requirements of the partner college. Of course preference would be given to hospital employees. The program could also be used as a retention tool.

Private grants would be needed. It would also be necessary to obtain commitment approval of the partner college.

How could accreditation issues be addressed? Would clinical staff be enthusiastic by such an undertaking? Could hospital admin. be sold on this type of program? Could non-MSN staff be used as clinical adjuncts? Would it still be necessary to have an all Master's prepared teaching staff?

Any thoughts?

Thank you for your time.

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

I believe what you are invisioning already exsists- although there are few of them. I am teaching at this type of school (I also graduated from it). It used to be a diploma program, but in the 70's, it converted to an ADN program. It is affiliated with the local community college, and all of the clinicals are done in the affiliated hospitals of the health system. They do also recruit hospital staff (non nurses) and have a loan forgiveness after they graduate (with a 1.5 yr per year of school commitment). I know of about two others offhand in my metro area that exsist- and they are a much cheaper alternative. The one I teach at does not require the pre-reqs to get in, alsthough some choose to do it this way (others actually apply to the school after they are on enormous waiting lists at the comm. colleges).

[RN4NICU, LPN, LVN]

The hospital would use present RN staff as clinical instructors

Not every staff nurse wants to take on students. Most probably don't. I don't think this idea would work. And YES, I would think that faculty for a degree program granting a BSN would need MSNs at the least. That is the standard for every other academic major and I do not think it should be lowered for nursing. I do not think that a BSN program belongs in a hospital - it belongs in a university. Just my opinion. I am sure others will disagree, but that is how I feel about it.

[fab4fan]

The hospital would use present RN staff as clinical instructors.

Wow. Wow. Triple wow.

There is no way in the world this would be workable, first and foremost because hospital units are understaffed as it is...taking on the total responsibility for students, too? Much as I enjoyed the students I precepted, no way would I agree to be providing care for patients and being a clinical instructor, too.

How would you ensure competence of the staff? There are good nurses out there and there are bad ones. Not everyone is a teacher, either. How would these nurses be compensated?

I graduated from a hospital based program. We were taught by MSNs, and we had an instructor on the floor with us in addition to having preceptors. Somewhere around senior year they did "unleash" us to an extent, but the instructor was always available by pager, and we knew darned well not to do anything we weren't signed off on.

I get the impression from your post that you're not a nurse yet. Some practical experience might be helpful for you to make a more realistic plan.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Wow. Wow. Triple wow.

There is no way in the world this would be workable, first and foremost because hospital units are understaffed as it is...taking on the total responsibility for students, too? Much as I enjoyed the students I precepted, no way would I agree to be providing care for patients and being a clinical instructor, too.

How would you ensure competence of the staff? There are good nurses out there and there are bad ones. Not everyone is a teacher, either. How would these nurses be compensated?

I graduated from a hospital based program. We were taught by MSNs, and we had an instructor on the floor with us in addition to having preceptors. Somewhere around senior year they did "unleash" us to an extent, but the instructor was always available by pager, and we knew darned well not to do anything we weren't signed off on.

I get the impression from your post that you're not a nurse yet. Some practical experience might be helpful for you to make a more realistic plan.

Yes this is right....it's just not realistic the way you describe it. Unless I am missing something, it just won't fly. Floor nurses have a lot to do w/o being forced to be clinical instructors on top of it. Volunteering to precept students here and there is one thing...taking on hoards each semester is quite another. And it's very true that many staff nurses would make LOUSY teachers. Esp those who are forced or coerced to do it.

[suzanne4, RN]

Precepting on the floor is one thing, but being required to also present didactics, this would never fly........

And I am a graduate of a hospital based Diploma-program. All of our instructors were considered full-time staff of the hospital, but there only responsibility was for teaching, not regular nursing job. There is way too much involved for the floor nurse to take on these responsibilities.

Just as when you attended your surgical scrub program, would you want instructors trying to teach you when they had to pay porimary attention to the surgeon and not to you? You needed class-time to learn your anatomy and physiology, etc................