horizontal abuse,in-figting among our peers

[James Garrity, BSN, RN]

I read recently in an article in Nurse Magazine, about the so called horizontal abuse,the ridicule and hostility between fellow nurses.My question is this,and I know I will be flamed for sounding like a male chauvenist,but does this happen as much with male nurses toward another male nurse as it does between two female nurses?I think the problem stems from the very nature of the profesion,it is female dominated and men have a different way of dealing with problems.Say my fellow RN"Joe"rebuked me about a mistake I made,ok,noted and I carry on,but we would probably go grab a bite or have a cup of coffee later as if nothing happened,unless Joe was a compleat jerk,the matter would be forgoten on a personal level.But a woman sees this as a confrontation,and even though she is polite and agreeable about it,in her mind and behind that persons back,she is showing resentment.Fact is,most women can be catty,men tend to blow it off.I have the utmost respect for female nurses and women in general,but there is a reason why we are male and female,and its not just body parts.What say you? James

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

James you probably will be flamed. LOL

I won't flame you but I disagree. If you look at the business world, the competition, the backstabbing, the gossiping at the water cooler, men do it too. Perhaps a little more subtley that women do.

I think in stressful work environments for some reason we take out our frustrations on each other. I worked in a very busy restaurant, with men in the kitchen and women out waiting tables. The men in the kitchen fussed and fought as much as the ladies did. The men in fact were more brutal in the name calling than the females. Day shifts on both sides fussed about the night shift.

So no, I don't think the horizontal abuse in nursing is because it's female dominated. Fortunately, where I work it's not rampant. It's there but I'm luck to work with a fine bunch of men and women.

There are going to be people that agree with you though. :)

[James Garrity, BSN, RN]

James you probably will be flamed. LOL

I won't flame you but I disagree. If you look at the business world, the competition, the backstabbing, the gossiping at the water cooler, men do it too. Perhaps a little more subtley that women do.

I think in stressful work environments for some reason we take out our frustrations on each other. I worked in a very busy restaurant, with men in the kitchen and women out waiting tables. The men in the kitchen fussed and fought as much as the ladies did. The men in fact were more brutal in the name calling than the females. Day shifts on both sides fussed about the night shift.

So no, I don't think the horizontal abuse in nursing is because it's female dominated. Fortunately, where I work it's not rampant. It's there but I'm luck to work with a fine bunch of men and women.

There are going to be people that agree with you though. :)

You probably right,I am just going from my own personal working experience with male and female co-workers,it just seemed that men tend to let it go sooner than women.And again I say,I have the utmost respect for wome as people and co-workers.James

[talaxandra]

James, I think you're right that women are in general less well able to separate criticism of their work performance from criticism of themselves. That can certainly contribute to a less enjoyable work place, for the reasons you've mentioned - that individual can then feel resentment or unhappiness, and pass it along.

That said, that's not really what horizontal violence is. Horizontal violence occurs when an individual or group systematically, consciously and consistantly undermines a colleague or group of colleagues - through direct attack, inference (subtle undermining), gossip and innuendo.

[UnewmeB4]

You probably right,I am just going from my own personal working experience with male and female co-workers,it just seemed that men tend to let it go sooner than women.And again I say,I have the utmost respect for wome as people and co-workers.James

I hate to agree, but, I do think guys let go more easily. When I was a kid, I use to wish I was a guy. They just had a physical fight, and were friends again. Girls got there friends involved and had long, drawn out verbal battles, gossiping, spreading rumors, etc.

Being a grown up, I wish adults, male or female, could just discuss the issues instead of "choosing sides" and turning into whining children. They need to teach all workers how to address work related issues without making things personal. Hmmmm...that would be a great seminar.

[fergus51]

That isn't true in my experience. I'll leave it at that.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

That isn't true in my experience. I'll leave it at that.

Ditto!!!!!!

Please note that you rarely hear any news stories about female dominated workplaces getting shot up by some out of control female worker.

However, there are many cases of male postal workers, police officers, firemen, stock traders going on a shooting sprees in their workplaces.

And in at least one of the units that I have worked, one of our male nurses got so angered by being requested to float (it was clearly his turn) that he turned on the staff and threw his keys (sharp) at them and then stormed out. He promptly called his wife who relayed to the faciity that he said, "No matter what happens remember I love you" and that he had loaded guns in his possession. The unit went into lockdown mode.

While I do not think women are any more "catty" than men, "cattiness" in the workplace is better than getting shot by a coworker.

At least in my opinion.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Being a grown up, I wish adults, male or female, could just discuss the issues instead of "choosing sides" and turning into whining children. They need to teach all workers how to address work related issues without making things personal. Hmmmm...that would be a great seminar.

I think it's because deep down in our hearts, we just never really grow up

I would hazard that a lot of it also has to do with how males and females operate on a "team" basis. Teamwork among males is different from teamwork among females.

I think there was a study or a report or something about how the way we raise our children sets them up for their behaviour on in later life. Boys are encouraged to go outside, play and rough it up with other boys. Girls play in a different fashion - at home, tea parties etc.

The rules are different for both scenarios. Conflict resolution thus, is also different in both scenarios. And therefore, different lessons are learned.

This ofcourse is no universal rule set in stone.

[Someday-C.R.N.A.]

Being a grown up, I wish adults, male or female, could just discuss the issues instead of "choosing sides" and turning into whining children. They need to teach all workers how to address work related issues without making things personal. Hmmmm...that would be a great seminar.

There it is.

This problem does not just pertain to nursing. It is (IMO) a HUGE problem, and it covers many professions, and many different "types" of people. It is unfortunate.

I thought there was a word for that?? ...........professional......something or another.

[UnewmeB4]

I think it's because deep down in our hearts, we just never really grow up

I would hazard that a lot of it also has to do with how males and females operate on a "team" basis. Teamwork among males is different from teamwork among females.

I think there was a study or a report or something about how the way we raise our children sets them up for their behaviour on in later life. Boys are encouraged to go outside, play and rough it up with other boys. Girls play in a different fashion - at home, tea parties etc.

The rules are different for both scenarios. Conflict resolution thus, is also different in both scenarios. And therefore, different lessons are learned.

This ofcourse is no universal rule set in stone.

Ahhhhhh...but, there were more boys than girls in my neighborhood. I never played with Barbies...we played with troll dolls...lol. We had a summer playground program where the guys in charge(college students...and our heroes!) allowed us to play everything except tackle football. They were way ahead of their time. That was where I learned to play chess, and where I learned "You never hate anyone. You might dislike them, but, never hate anyone." I was a lucky girl.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Well in my last job, I was the only guy on the night shift schedule in my ICU. And more often than not, if I interjected into a conversation, it was to say, "Be Nice!".

I'm not saying that both guys and girls don't back talk and stab each other, but they do it in different ways.

The phrase 'nurses eat their own' didn't come from the blue. I've seen women nurses group together to run somebody off. More than once.

But I have to agree that is more human nature than nursing nature. Our jobs by definition exacerbates some of this. For example, I'm sure teachers can be the same way, but the dynamics of working in a school is that you have to eventually learn to play well. But because nursing has so many options, even in the same institution, it's more possible to 'run somebody off' - and that might create a nastier edge to accomplish that goal than would be found in a group of, say teachers, that understand such a goal isn't as accomplishable.

Does that make sense?

~faith,

Timothy.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

I'm not saying that both guys and girls don't back talk and stab each other, but they do it in different ways.

So is better to shoot up our coworkers than talk about them?