hippa violation

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k, a little background. i'm privately contracted to do bedside procedures in the icu. my friends husband is in the room next door & it's not a good situation. a third friend has been with her all day but is now gone. i'm doing the procedure next door, fully aware of what is happening to my friends husband. my friend is upset with the doctors & is crying & confronting them at his bedside. I call friend #3 to tell her what all has transpired, updating her on the declining desposition of my friends husband. we r all nurses. an icu nurse overhears me talking to friend #3 about our friend's husband's condition. now the icu charge nurse & house supervisor are trying to slap me with a HIPPA violation & ban me from the hospital. Did i violate hippa by updating a friend on another friend's husband?:uhoh3:

Interesting point.

I wonder if the hospital can file HIPAA charges against the OP or does it have to be the patient?

The OP technically did commit a violation, but I say no harm, no foul, but lesson learned for the future.

Not having a clue legal wise in the discussion but just another question. Would any HIPPA violation if there is one at all be related to the facillity, or with the doctor whom you were employed?

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Specializes in ICU, dialysis.

thank you for all the opions & advice. to answer one post, yes. the icu nurses at that facility do not like us because in their eyes we just sit for 3 hours & get paid more than they do on an average. & yes my friend is going to slap them & the doctors with negligence & malpractice suits. I think everyone at that hospital is nervous because the victims wife is not a lay person. she knows exactly what is going on, asked some difficult, tho appropriate questions which set the staff & doctors on edge. it's an ugly situation. again i don't work with the hospital, i had my friends permission to update friend #3 & the only recourse the hospital has is to ban me from doing procedures at that hospital which they are doing now until they "investigate" the situation. how about the doctor that gave my friend a copy of the head ct? how about the nurses that were talking openly about my friend's husbands case which is where i got my information. i did not look in his chart. i don't have access to the computers since i'm not an employee. i went in to see him & whisper words of encouragement to him. & yes i looked at the monitors, the drips, & the vent settings, as a knowledgable friend. so where is the hippa violation? should i get a lawyer? what is the fine? you are all right, i will be more careful & carry an extra change of clothes in my car. My friends are always contacting me for advice when they have a loved one that is hospitalized. as far as being on the clock. i'm not an employee of the hospital, we don't punch in or out. we report our time to my manager, who has also gotten grief from these ICU nurses in the past.:banghead:

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

If you had given us all of the information in regards to your concern of whether or not you made a HIPAA violation, we wouldn't have assumed that you just went ahead and updated friend 3 without the other friend's knowledge. And you seem a bit bitter about the ICU nurses. Who cares if they don't like you? That's their problem.

If you and your friend feel that legal recourse is the best option, fine. We can't give you legal advice here.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.

I still think, even with the updated info, that it's a violation. You learned of what was going on while working as a healthcare professional. The laws ARE very strict on patient privacy. Making the call where you could be overheard was your biggest mistake. I don't think you can try to cover for it now.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Though you meant well, yes, it was a HIPAA violation. You learned details of your friend's husband's condition due to your position working in the ICU. Doesn't matter whether you are working for the hospital or not, you were privy to this private info because of where you were.

I truly hope that your friend was comforted by your presence.

Of course, we can't provide legal advice but just want to wish you well.

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The OP was in the hospital as a professional health care worker and thus I would consider any health information gained, whether directly or indirectly (eg overhear something), as private health information, not to be disclosed for anything other than communicating to another health care worker who also needs the info. It would be a totally different situation if she were there as a visitor and overheard the information that way.

Given the inherent dilemma involved of being both a close friend and in a professional position that allowed the OP to gain information about the friend's husband, it would be prudent to be *very* careful in regard to communicating any information about the patient/friend's husband to the third friend over the phone. The OP was there & privy to the information about the husband because of her role as a health care professional and thus I would think that her professional obligations would demand she keep private any information gained due to her status as a professional.

Assuming that the wife had explicitly let the OP know that it was okay to contact the friend and the OP felt it imperative to call the friend right away, at the very least it would have better to not share anything that she'd overheard while there in the capacity as a health care professional.

In the ideal world, the OP would've been able to decline that assignment due to the potential conflicts as it's understandable that a professional not be able to completely turn off turn their friend role when in such close proximity and watching someone they love in crisis.

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Specializes in LPN, Peds, Public Health.

I don't think its a HIPPA violation because she had permission to share medical information. If anything comes of the hospital's investigation, the wife needs to write a statement or however that works stating that she had her permission to disclose this info with person #3.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

Just to be on the safe side, I would not have gotten involved. I know you were trying to be a friend, but you were there under the capacity of a health care provider, even though you were privately contracted. Maybe it can be considered the equivilant of me overhearing a conversation or witnessing things as an employee who happens to know these people, and then, am overheard by my nursing supervisor chatting about it with a friend. I do not believe that you had malicious intent, but I can see the job or courts having a field day with this. I can get a bit paranoid about things, but I do remember in school when the professor said that we are nurses 24 hours a day. I took that to mean that just because I changed from my whites to my ripped jeans doesn't mean that then, I can tell names, dates and such about another person.

I suspect it may blow over as well, if your friend is in support of this, because she would probably have to be the one to make the initial complaint, but to be sure, I would try not to do this again. God forbid that this person die at the same time that someone decides to bring charges against you. The person who is grieving has her own concerns and may not have the frame of mind to advocate for you at that moment due to her own tragedy.

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Specializes in ccu cardiovascular.

I think if the wife vouches for you that she gave you permisiion then you should be okay. This happened at our unit. We had a new lpn still on orientation she saw her husbands boss admitted and called her dh at his business and told him he was was dmitted and what the diagnosis he was bieng admitted for. She got called on it and her dh got his boss to vouch for her. We all knew what a joke she made out of everyone but in the end I think she learned her lesson.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I think if the wife vouches for you that she gave you permisiion then you should be okay. This happened at our unit. We had a new lpn still on orientation she saw her husbands boss admitted and called her dh at his business and told him he was was dmitted and what the diagnosis he was bieng admitted for. She got called on it and her dh got his boss to vouch for her. We all knew what a joke she made out of everyone but in the end I think she learned her lesson.

I sincerely hope that things work out for the OP as well. I just would not place myself in the situation to call someone, especially at the workplace where I can be overheard. HIPPA has caused great deals of confusion and I would not want to be caught in the mix of that.

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Specializes in ccu cardiovascular.

Pagan, I totally agree with you and I myself steer very clear away from these types of situations.

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Specializes in ICU, dialysis.

just an update. the wife of the patient signed a letter stating i had persmission to update friend #3. they r deliberating over it. i find out tomorrow. the house supervisor n nite charge nurse went so far as to take it to the hospital lawyers, i spoke to the doctor i'm employed by n he said that there was no violation on my part. but loads of it on the hospital staff & doctors. so i don't know. i'll post everything when i find out. thanks for all ur comments. :nurse:

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