On two occasions we have had "helpless" visitors come to our floor. What do you do in these situations.
1. An older wheelchair boud lady was brought by her son to visit a patient and essentially abandoned. It was in the evening and she kept saying he was supposed to come back and get her. She was incontinent at times and needed assistnace to transfer to the toilet when she wasnt having incontinent episodes. Our asst nurse manager was able to contact appropriate family the next day to come and get her if I recall...but for that night a tech assisted her.
2. A morbidly obese woman...over 400lbs came to visit her mother. It started with the ER calling our floor and asking if someone would wheel her from there to our floor because she wasn't able. We did not and security brought her to the room. At some point the woman needed tp use the bathroom and could not get up. Eventually security + 3 staff got her on a bariatric bedside commode and back into a wheelchair with much difficulty. Our night supervisor warned after this incident that if injured the staff wouldn't get workers comp and also assisting someone is entering into a contract with them and we could be liable for injuries.
My question for the 2nd one is how did this lady even get from her house to a car to the hospital and in a wheelchair anyway. Of course no one asked. And for both we are busy as it is without having essentially another patient needing full assistance but these people were helped as not to be cold.
When folks in situations like those mentioned above start whining or making asinine comments like, "I thought nurses caaaared about peeeeople," they are trying to exploit our caring and relieve themselves of any guilt or responsibility. This should not be rewarded.
On the flip side: I had to take the mother of a patient down to the ED when she started c/o chest pains. At first she balked, saying that she didn't want to leave her daughter and new grandbaby. I gently told her that the kindest thing she could do for them was to go to the ED and be examined, and that it would be much easier for all concerned for me to take her down in a wheelchair while she was alert and lively than call a code after she had collapsed. This might seem drastic, but I was serious.
After I returned, the daughter thanked me. She was worried sick but hadn't known how to get her mother to listen.
I had a patient once whose daughter was visiting. She had some sort of disability that made walking difficult. She used a walker or wheelchair if she was tired. I think there was some mental issues going on too. Someone had dropped her off to visit mom. No one came back for her. Luckily the bed next to her was empty since her mom was on precautions. She was going to stay there as a last resort. She did have to call the "old man" to let him know what she was going to do. I'm wondering why the "old man" couldn't come get her, but I figure he was probably as bad off as her. I did call the supervisor and eventually got her a cab voucher. But then someone had to wheel her down to ED.
Security is really nice about helping people in wheelchairs get back to their cars. Our hospital is huge and it is quite a walk for anyone.
It is just inappropriate to leave a family member to visit in the hospital if they can't take care of themselves or get home. We are stretched too thin to be taking care of everyone. I honestly wish I had the time...but I don't.
I will get drinks, blankets, reclining chairs, pillows and snacks for family members. The lengths I will go depends on the circumstances.
This is like "standard" protocol. Visitors EXPECT these things to be flowing freely...let me not get started. Have even been asked if I could go to the L&D floor to get the diapers/formula for someone's baby....
I agree with the other nurses. We have these problems as well. I work OB and we often have "helpless visitors" that come to visit the new mom and baby. We send them to the ER. I can't tell you the number of people (grandparents especially) that ask me to take their B/P. I refuse. If it's high, I'm legally liable to do something about it.
I tell them I can't, but the ER can. Would they like directions?
It's bad enough we often deal with "helpless patients" (many who truly are not as helpless as they would like us to believe). I refuse to deal with helpless family.
~Sherri
"The new nurse thinks like a mom. The experienced nurse thinks like a lawyer."
You know, if we can't give tylenol to a family member - I am very certain we can't - then why can we toilet and take care of infirm helpless family members? Surely that's practicing medicine without a licence too? I mean what if we transferred them inappropriately?
Years ago we had a patient and his wife would stay overnight. She had dementia. About two weeks later she was admitted too. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen and I can't believe the facility allowed it.
I will get drinks, blankets, reclining chairs, pillows and snacks for family members. The lengths I will go depends on the circumstances.
I used to do this too. Not anymore. We have a cafeteria for drinks. Blankets and pillows - if we have them I will provide them. I am polite. I am sweet. But I am NOT a waitress. I am not bringing families sprites, coffee "Could I get cream and sugar too, hon?", snacks. Nope.
When I worked med-surg a few years ago, we had an elderly woman who was contracted, unable to speak, with a feeding tube and 10 family members in the room. I kept seeing my tech run in and out of the room. As I was asking her why she kept going in there, a family member stepped off the elevator with another family member, pointed at her and said "We gonna need two more sprites and a diet coke up in here. Oh and 2 more of them orange sherberts." I stopped that. I marched right in an very politely stated that our tech was new and didn't realize the hospital policy states we do not provide drinks or snacks to family members. I told them the Garden Cafe could be found on the first floor. They complained "But she been bringing them ALL DAY" I explained "Well, now that she has been informed it is against hospital policy, she will not bring any more sodas or drinks into the room. Your mom can not eat/drink anything by mouth, so there is no need for her to bring any food or drink into this room." They cleared out within the half hour.
I guess you are right - under certain circumstances.. the daughter that stays all through the night to care for her father - the tired husband who has stayed up all night with his laboring wife in pre-term labor. Nice people. People who appreciate and don't just expect. So tired of people who VISIT the hospital who act like we are there to serve them.
~Sherri
"The new nurse thinks like a mom. The experienced nurse thinks like a lawyer."
Well, I believe one has to rise to the occasion, and take care of whom ever graces our floor. I is an equivalent to the McDonald's employees being greeted with a bus. Don't like it, some times hate it, but it needs to be done. Granted the individual is not your immediate customer, but the individual is a customer no less. So, rise to the occasion, or call your UM and request additional assistance..."WE'RE SWAMPED!
on two occasions we have had "helpless" visitors come to our floor. what do you do in these situations.
1. an older wheelchair boud lady was brought by her son to visit a patient and essentially abandoned. it was in the evening and she kept saying he was supposed to come back and get her. she was incontinent at times and needed assistnace to transfer to the toilet when she wasnt having incontinent episodes. our asst nurse manager was able to contact appropriate family the next day to come and get her if i recall...but for that night a tech assisted her.
someone needs to catch her son the next time he comes with her and explain to him that if she is not independent, he cannot leave her. he was taking advantage of the "free baby sitting". call him out on it.
2. a morbidly obese woman...over 400lbs came to visit her mother. it started with the er calling our floor and asking if someone would wheel her from there to our floor because she wasn't able. we did not and security brought her to the room. at some point the woman needed tp use the bathroom and could not get up. eventually security + 3 staff got her on a bariatric bedside commode and back into a wheelchair with much difficulty. our night supervisor warned after this incident that if injured the staff wouldn't get workers comp and also assisting someone is entering into a contract with them and we could be liable for injuries.
your supervisor is absolutley correct....again, catching the people as they come in the door and explaining to them that they cannot be left...if she came alone...if she is that independent then she can get up to use the bathroom herself.
my question for the 2nd one is how did this lady even get from her house to a car to the hospital and in a wheelchair anyway. of course no one asked. and for both we are busy as it is without having essentially another patient needing full assistance but these people were helped as not to be cold.
i have a feeling that she scammed you....some (not all) are morbidly obese because they choose not to do anything physical. we had this recently in our unit where the mom was fully capable of standing up and picking up the baby (because she walked to the unit and the baby had no iv lines)....but she asked the nurses to get it out and bring it over to her chair...we said, "you need to get comfortable getting the baby in and out of the isolette yourself" and then just ignored her. she eventually took the hint.
You know, if we can't give tylenol to a family member - I am very certain we can't - then why can we toilet and take care of infirm helpless family members? Surely that's practicing medicine without a licence too? I mean what if we transferred them inappropriately?
Years ago we had a patient and his wife would stay overnight. She had dementia. About two weeks later she was admitted too. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen and I can't believe the facility allowed it.
You cannot dispense medication in a clinical setting without a patient being admitted, a physician writing an order and it going through the pharmacy, THAT is practicing medicine without a license if you give them Tylenol.
It IS within your scope of practice, and requries no physician's order, to provide basic assistance if a person requests it (abulation, toileting, even basic first aid)..however, if that person is not admitted to the hospital, it's no different if you found them on the street...you enter into a contract to provide care the minute you touch them and you are liable for any damages should you injure them and if you injure yourself, the hospital will not cover you.
You are not responsible (nor the facility), if she had dementia that was undiagnosed and no one was aware of it...no liablity whatsoever.
Well, I believe one has to rise to the occasion, and take care of whom ever graces our floor. I is an equivalent to the McDonald's employees being greeted with a bus. Don't like it, some times hate it, but it needs to be done. Granted the individual is not your immediate customer, but the individual is a customer no less. So, rise to the occasion, or call your UM and request additional assistance..."WE'RE SWAMPED!
I absolutely disagree with you.
As nurses we are collectively responsible for the patients in our unit. The hospital is a semi-public place -- I have no control over visitors who come and go -- and I also have no responsibility for them. Inability to ambulate is not a medical emergency unless you collapse in front of me.
This is not equivalent to an unexpectedly large number of customers arriving to patronize McDonald's.
And BTW, McDonald's employees are not expected to assist customers with ambulation, or to & from the bathroom.
You cannot dispense medication in a clinical setting without a patient being admitted, a physician writing an order and it going through the pharmacy, THAT is practicing medicine without a license if you give them Tylenol.
It IS within your scope of practice, and requries no physician's order, to provide basic assistance if a person requests it (abulation, toileting, even basic first aid)..however, if that person is not admitted to the hospital, it's no different if you found them on the street...you enter into a contract to provide care the minute you touch them and you are liable for any damages should you injure them and if you injure yourself, the hospital will not cover you.
You are not responsible (nor the facility), if she had dementia that was undiagnosed and no one was aware of it...no liablity whatsoever.
She had diagnosed dementia. The patient (husband) was her usual caregiver. The family were just getting free caregiving services. The administration knew. It was wrong.
Well, I believe one has to rise to the occasion, and take care of whom ever graces our floor. I is an equivalent to the McDonald's employees being greeted with a bus. Don't like it, some times hate it, but it needs to be done. Granted the individual is not your immediate customer, but the individual is a customer no less. So, rise to the occasion, or call your UM and request additional assistance..."WE'RE SWAMPED!
Using McDonalds as an analogy, what these people are doing is the equivalent of me walking into a McDonalds with my friend and ordering a supersized meal. I then request a free coke for my friend because I am a customer and she is my friend. Do you think they will get her a free coke or expect that it be paid for?
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
well, i believe one has to rise to the occasion, and take care of whom ever graces our floor. i is an equivalent to the mcdonald's employees being greeted with a bus. don't like it, some times hate it, but it needs to be done. granted the individual is not your immediate customer, but the individual is a customer no less. so, rise to the occasion, or call your um and request additional assistance..."we're swamped!
while we need to rise to the occasion and take care of whatever patients grace our floor or our unit, we have no obligation to care for visitors unless they dfo at our feet. the obligation we have is to protect our institution from frivolus lawsuits by directing the visitor to the er for any vital signs, blood sugar checks or treatement they feel they need or deserve. treating visitors not only opens ourselves and our employer to litigation, it takes away time and resources we should be spending on our actual patients.
i can guarantee that no nurse manager i've ever met would provide extra assistance to enable us to provide care to visitors. she'd probably laugh herself sick instead.
rn/writer, RN
9 Articles; 4,168 Posts
When folks in situations like those mentioned above start whining or making asinine comments like, "I thought nurses caaaared about peeeeople," they are trying to exploit our caring and relieve themselves of any guilt or responsibility. This should not be rewarded.
On the flip side: I had to take the mother of a patient down to the ED when she started c/o chest pains. At first she balked, saying that she didn't want to leave her daughter and new grandbaby. I gently told her that the kindest thing she could do for them was to go to the ED and be examined, and that it would be much easier for all concerned for me to take her down in a wheelchair while she was alert and lively than call a code after she had collapsed. This might seem drastic, but I was serious.
After I returned, the daughter thanked me. She was worried sick but hadn't known how to get her mother to listen.