This is long, but if you read and can help me understand... I will greatly appreciate it!
A little background:
I am currently taking Intro A&P as a summer class. For my particular LVN program, we are allowed to take this class in advance of the program (with or without acceptance to the program) to substitute for A&P for AH. I opted to take the summer class for several reasons - 1) opens up a huge chunk of time on Fridays while my kids are at school for studying or me-time or whatever, 2) one less thing to study and memorize and learn with everything else going on in the program and 3) I felt it would give me a little bit of an academic advantage, having studied this subject before the core program classes that build on it.
Out of 25 people in my class, 18 are Fall LVN Program students... presumably for the substitution option. (I don't know why anyone would do this route otherwise..)
That said, a good deal of my class mates are failing.
We have a separate lab that makes up 25% of the total final grade (avg of 4 tests), and from what I can tell by their own account, the majority is barely passing even the lab portion. We have had 2 tests so far with class averages below 50% on each, and a test coming up on Tuesday... final exam is 7/22.
After the last test, the usual 'how did you do' conversations arose... (we are allowed to keep the test paper and given an answer key once we turn in our scantron) I was disappointed in my grade until I found out my 81 was one of the highest... Of course, I got lots of questions about how I study, etc... and I gave up my secret (study outline at the end of each chapter closely mirrors the test questions.. but we were told this on the first day)... and I actually read every page of every chapter at least once... take notes in class (and don't miss class)... but I only STUDY those outlines for the chapters we are testing on...
My confusion (and the point of this terribly long post) is how anyone could spend that much money to PAY to be in school, and not do the reading... not make the effort to learn the material.. Why bother at all??
Is this an indicator of what to expect in nursing school? I know for a fact that one of my classmates is in the same program location as I am (there are 5 options for the program, my A&P class is at a campus for a different location than my program... same college though).. but I really feel for the other 16 people in this class going in to the program... A&P isn't nearly as tough as some of the subjects we will study (based on posts here and friends/family who have been through the program) and you just can't blow it off until the day before/day of test... Why take the spot if you're not committed enough to put the time in to studying...
I know I am making assumptions... and I know what that often gets a person.. lol.. I'm just trying to understand and thought maybe other students might have a different perspective. It's too late to form study groups and such for this class (only 4 meetings left, 1 of which is final only)... but perhaps I can learn a way to help a fellow student if I see this in the Fall... if for nothing else than I hate to see someone do themselves in...
Or maybe I just need to not worry about what/how others are doing? LOL If that's the case, just come on out and tell me..
As an aside, I have never taken a college level science class before and would never recommend anyone take a summer science class that wasn't prepared for the sheer speed of the class... let alone the subject matter to be learned quickly in just 7 weeks. I took a huge chance on this class and if I wasn't able to do as much study time as I am, I probably would have wasted my ~$700 by getting in over my head.. It is pretty overwhelming to learn this much in such a short time!
I didn't take your post condescending or offensive just wanted to state a different point of view as to why some may not be doing so well. In asking if you were curved to the 80 was seeing if everyone is in fact getting the low score and then curved up to a better score. Like someone says the instructor needs to look at how they are presenting the material as well as people need to take it on themselves and self teach. I found that in my A/P I, but had a marvelous teacher for A/P II.
I got your point and it is completely unnecessary and offensive. Good luck to you my little friend. Clearly your road ahead will be a bit tricky vis those nurse-nurse relationships. When you are older you will learn that throw away lines like that aren't clever, don't make you look clever and put you at odds with others. Too smarmy by half.
I am right with you on the summer science class. I haven't had a science class since I was a sophomore in high school .... 22 years ago! It isn't easy at all... but if you can do it... and I can do it... it IS possible!
LOL- When I actually do the math, it was well over 20 years for me too!
Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.
:redpinkheZiggysgal: Thank you for posting about this issue!
Please forgive the long post/vent below. Please read and give advice, please.
I am also taking a summer school 8 week A&P and it seems to me that nothing I do works to prep for the exams. I don't do the reading because my professor writes powerpoints - 42-36 slides per week and provides a study guide. I spend all of my time just learning what's on the study guide- which she doesn't cover all the material in lecture nor does the book cover all of the info.
While I don't do the reading of the text, I do teach myself all items on the study guides. I also make flash cards. I also buy models - we don't have a real lab available at school and practice at home. I draw the structures using color pencils and test myself. I talk out concepts with my family. I read her pwerpoints and make notes and review the concepts that aren't clear with Mr. Google. That being said, I guess I don't do ALL of those things ALL THE TIME. Maybe that's my problem. I do study about 3 hours every day, less some days, more others. I can't seem to find more time, perhaps I have to find a way.
Other than the labs, there are no other assignments. The lab material DOES NOT relate to the exam, except in general.
I stopped reading during the unit on brains when we had 2 exams 4 days apart - no weekend in between and the chapter was 192 pages long. I had been doing the reading and making outlines and taking notes up to that point but that wasnt enough to learn the items listed on the study guide - provided a 2-4 days before the exam. I earned 1 B and 3 C's when I was doing the reading. We're taking 1-2 exams every single week.
If any student in my class told me doing the reading worked for them, I would do it. To the best of my knowledge, people who read the chapter, complete the study guide, and cram by staying up all night the day before do pass. People have said they spent 19 hours just studying the study guide and received A's.
I know I'm complaining a lot, I'm tired. I have 3 weeks left and originally wanted to earn an A, and am very discouraged.
My professor is scatter brained and doesn't finish sentences. She can't answer deeper questions that will help us students to truly understand the concepts. She literally doesnt know the answers and can't formulate coherent responses. I think she is still learning the material herself and she's disorganized. For ex, there are spelling errors on the study guide and power points but she tells us our answer is incorrect if we spell wrong. She pronounces words wrong, too so that makes it difficult, as well.
Did I tell you the lab book and the text are by different authors? - thus different material, different verbiage, etc.
An OP mentioned that A & P is self study. Oh. I guess I missed that memo, LOL! I am in the classroom on my fanny for 5.75 hours 4 days per week and have recently realized that the time in class is wasted because she just reads her powerpoint notes in a convoluded manner. I'm better off reading them at home and looking up the info in my medical dictionary, or online.
I know this is a long vent, but I appreciate anyone who read it and responds.
I need to fix my attitude and buckle down and work hard and work smart for the next 3 weeks. If anyone has any advice, I need it!
:redpinkheZiggysgal: Thank you for posting about this issue!
Please forgive the long post/vent below. Please read and give advice, please.
I am also taking a summer school 8 week A&P and it seems to me that nothing I do works to prep for the exams. I don't do the reading because my professor writes powerpoints - 42-36 slides per week and provides a study guide. I spend all of my time just learning what's on the study guide- which she doesn't cover all the material in lecture nor does the book cover all of the info.
While I don't do the reading of the text, I do teach myself all items on the study guides. I also make flash cards. I also buy models - we don't have a real lab available at school and practice at home. I draw the structures using color pencils and test myself. I talk out concepts with my family. I read her pwerpoints and make notes and review the concepts that aren't clear with Mr. Google. That being said, I guess I don't do ALL of those things ALL THE TIME. Maybe that's my problem. I do study about 3 hours every day, less some days, more others. I can't seem to find more time, perhaps I have to find a way.
Other than the labs, there are no other assignments. The lab material DOES NOT relate to the exam, except in general.
I stopped reading during the unit on brains when we had 2 exams 4 days apart - no weekend in between and the chapter was 192 pages long. I had been doing the reading and making outlines and taking notes up to that point but that wasnt enough to learn the items listed on the study guide - provided a 2-4 days before the exam. I earned 1 B and 3 C's when I was doing the reading. We're taking 1-2 exams every single week.
If any student in my class told me doing the reading worked for them, I would do it. To the best of my knowledge, people who read the chapter, complete the study guide, and cram by staying up all night the day before do pass. People have said they spent 19 hours just studying the study guide and received A's.
I know I'm complaining a lot, I'm tired. I have 3 weeks left and originally wanted to earn an A, and am very discouraged.
My professor is scatter brained and doesn't finish sentences. She can't answer deeper questions that will help us students to truly understand the concepts. She literally doesnt know the answers and can't formulate coherent responses. I think she is still learning the material herself and she's disorganized. For ex, there are spelling errors on the study guide and power points but she tells us our answer is incorrect if we spell wrong. She pronounces words wrong, too so that makes it difficult, as well.
Did I tell you the lab book and the text are by different authors? - thus different material, different verbiage, etc.
An OP mentioned that A & P is self study. Oh. I guess I missed that memo, LOL! I am in the classroom on my fanny for 5.75 hours 4 days per week and have recently realized that the time in class is wasted because she just reads her powerpoint notes in a convoluded manner. I'm better off reading them at home and looking up the info in my medical dictionary, or online.
I know this is a long vent, but I appreciate anyone who read it and responds.
I need to fix my attitude and buckle down and work hard and work smart for the next 3 weeks. If anyone has any advice, I need it!
TIA!
Wow... I would honestly say that what you ARE doing would be considered a reasonable substitute for the reading... although, if it isn't succeeding for you, it is worth re-evaluating. The key difference between what you have described and what I have heard from some of my classmates is the effort you are putting in to it.
My instructor is very much like you have described yours with the power points... lol.... I take notes in class to reinforce what I've pre-read, but honestly I do not like his teaching style. I will give him credit for making it easy to know what's likely going to be on the test, though... (He told everyone on the first day, review those chapter outlines... most of the test questions come directly from those.)
A good thing to do is figure out what kind of learner you are. I know that there are technical terms for it, but I'm not well versed on the subject, so I'm going to put my uninformed two cents on the issue and someone else could possibly offer more insight.
When I read, I probably do the most insane and extreme thing to make it 'stick'... but it works. I type out the text as I read it. Yes, it is time consuming and would not work for someone with only a couple of hours... but it works. (Originally developed as a trick in middle school to help remember vocabulary words/definitions... gave it a shot with this class and it has worked just as well.)
Once I complete that for a given chapter, I move on to the end-of-chapter questions. Anything I cannot answer, I note that I need to focus on that for test review. I spend a little bit of time reviewing the chapter outline and then move on to the next chapter. (Our class is avg 2 chapters per night, 2 lectures per week, 2 labs per week)
When test time rolls around, rather than extensive study, I once again review the chapter outline and my focus points. I spread all of this out over the week so that my test review is rather brief compared to 'reading'.
I find it is important to try to understand the how's and why's behind whatever you're studying. It helps to learn the reasons for the structure and function to sort of tie it all together.
I found this thread while looking over stickied threads the other day and wanted to mention it so you might find help with your last 3 weeks.
After this whirlwind class, I think I would caution anyone I knew was considering a summer science class against it. Some may disagree and say that science is no more difficult than any other subject in the summer, but yikes it is a lot of NEW information!
I started out thinking I would be happy with no less than an A... now, I'm pretty sure I will be happy with a B (because I earned it.. lol)... but I am not settling for bare minimum from myself, either... (as opposed to someone who might not put any effort into it)
I got your point and it is completely unnecessary and offensive. Good luck to you my little friend. Clearly your road ahead will be a bit tricky vis those nurse-nurse relationships. When you are older you will learn that throw away lines like that aren't clever, don't make you look clever and put you at odds with others. Too smarmy by half.
I must of offended you. lol. I am going to ignore the negative assumption you made about me and explain what I meant by my previous post.
Look- most LVN programs are not merit-based. Most likely you get into a LVN program by either lottery or $$$. I am not saying people doing the LVN route are stupid. I am just saying that not all of those people are the brightest apples and maybe that is why they are having a hard time taking A&P.
I must of offended you. lol. I am going to ignore the negative assumption you made about me and explain what I meant by my previous post.
Look- most LVN programs are not merit-based. Most likely you get into a LVN program by either lottery or $$$. I am not saying people doing the LVN route are stupid. I am just saying that not all of those people are the brightest apples and maybe that is why they are having a hard time taking A&P.
if I could kudos myself I would.
Interesting perspective. I guess I considered it a little higher standard because the program I am in is neither lottery based nor involving money in acceptance. You must pass the DET exam to even be considered and from experience, that is much more challenging than the previous use of the NET exam. (I have taken both, NET for a previous attempt to enter an LVN program that was derailed by life circumstances.) The DET weeds out a good deal of people who just aren't capable of the level of coursework, so I feel confident that the issue is not lack of ability.
For what it's worth, the LVN program is a step on my career ladder to RN (MSN or DSN perhaps). I do not believe it is 'less of a nurse' though because it may very well become a terminal step for me. At my age, it is realistic to believe I might HAVE to discontinue educational pursuits at any time. It does appear that you are lumping the entire level of LVN nursing into a group of unfavorable quality. (Not trying to make assumptions, just pointing out something I perceive.) Does that carry over into your interactions with LVNs? Something to consider... which, I believe, DolceVita was trying to point out.
A nurse is a nurse... only the scope of practice changes based on education level. Very likely, the LVN you hypothetically lack respect for will be the RN you next work with... or just the one that gets your back in a time of crisis... Just a thought.
I do appreciate all points of perspective, though... it is helpful when considering that these people may very well wind up as colleagues or even higher-level classmates in the future.
I have the problem of seeing a problem and desiring to help fix it, sometimes... and as many of these replies have pointed out, I really ought to focus my energies on my own situation more than worrying about other people's... LOL
I must of offended you. lol. I am going to ignore the negative assumption you made about me and explain what I meant by my previous post.
Look- most LVN programs are not merit-based. Most likely you get into a LVN program by either lottery or $$$. I am not saying people doing the LVN route are stupid. I am just saying that not all of those people are the brightest apples and maybe that is why they are having a hard time taking A&P.
if I could kudos myself I would.
Oooooooooh well that is much better. Dear me. I think you should put down the shovel or at least stop digging. Even when you think that "not all of those people are the brightest apples" it really doesn't serve you to say so. Consider it this way -- it probably sounds better in your head than it does out loud. I am sure it doesn't sound very nice out loud to the LVNs and LVN students on this board.
I must of offended you. lol. I am going to ignore the negative assumption you made about me and explain what I meant by my previous post.
Look- most LVN programs are not merit-based. Most likely you get into a LVN program by either lottery or $$$. I am not saying people doing the LVN route are stupid. I am just saying that not all of those people are the brightest apples and maybe that is why they are having a hard time taking A&P.
if I could kudos myself I would.
Re-read Dolcevita's message. I see your age is 21 so someday you may ripe into a shiny apple and understand. I wish you the best of luck with your co-workers.
Oooooooooh well that is much better. Dear me. I think you should put down the shovel or at least stop digging. Even when you think that "not all of those people are the brightest apples" it really doesn't serve you to say so. Consider it this way -- it probably sounds better in your head than it does out loud. I am sure it doesn't sound very nice out loud to the LVNs and LVN students on this board.
You just proved my supposition.
Look, I am not saying anything negative about LVNs or being in a LVN program. The OP is in a LVN program that is merit-based which she didn't mention in her first post so I just assume it was like any other typical LVN program--which goes by lottery or $$. If it is a lottery system anyone can get in as long as you have the min. requirements. From that assumption, it isn't unreasonable to assume that some people who got into the program might have just barely fulfilled those requirements and hence will have a hard time taking A&P. A&P is a hard class for a lot people anyways so maybe they aren't just studying correctly.
my reference of "brightest apples" is pretty sugar coated so relax a little. and again I said "some" not all.
how anyone could spend that much money to pay to be in school, and not do the reading... not make the effort to learn the material... why bother at all?
some do not know how to work for a good grade.
some of these have never had a class they found difficult, so have never needed to do more than skim through some of the material. others put time and effort into a class but have not learned how to do so effectively. in either case they may not have realized they were not making enough effort to learn the material.
some know they are not making enough of an effort. of these, some thought their effort was "good enough" and miscalculated on how much they needed to work to get the grade they wanted. some just procrastinate. some got in over their heads (considering what else they are also doing - jobs, other classes, etc).
a few really don't care... they *have* to take a class to keep parents happy, or to keep loans deferring or keep eligible for scholarships or to keep welfare benefits or to keep covered by their parents' health insurance.
"...perhaps i can learn a way to help a fellow student ... or maybe i just need to not worry about what/how others are doing..."
i look for ways to help others. most of the time, there is not much i can do in this kind of situation. unless they are looking for help, they usually get either offended or defensive or both and do not accept help (from my own experience and seeing what happens to other people and/or study groups). i look for the people who looking for help. they are different than the people who may say the words but are really just venting after a test.
oh, edit because i forgot the other hand... i love to get ideas from other people and share mine, but it is good to realize how different people are. not reading the book, for example. at one time i thought that (and attending class) were the bare bones basic things to do when you had a class. then, my husband (friend, then) took a class together. i discovered why some people don't always read everything and he discovered why they do. i could easily read six chapters in the time it took him to read the first two pages. he did well in school, but not by reading everything. he learns by hearing and doing, i learn by seeing. he taught me how to turn what i heard (and saw) into someting to do, and how to apply the 80/20 rule.
some things are universal, though... like when the prof tells the class what will be on the test.
Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.
. When I read, I probably do the most insane and extreme thing to make it 'stick'... but it works. I type out the text as I read it. Yes, it is time consuming and would not work for someone with only a couple of hours... but it works. (Originally developed as a trick in middle school to help remember vocabulary words/definitions... gave it a shot with this class and it has worked just as well.)
Once I complete that for a given chapter, I move on to the end-of-chapter questions. Anything I cannot answer, I note that I need to focus on that for test review. I spend a little bit of time reviewing the chapter outline and then move on to the next chapter. (Our class is avg 2 chapters per night, 2 lectures per week, 2 labs per week)
When test time rolls around, rather than extensive study, I once again review the chapter outline and my focus points. I spread all of this out over the week so that my test review is rather brief compared to 'reading'.
I find it is important to try to understand the how's and why's behind whatever you're studying. It helps to learn the reasons for the structure and function to sort of tie it all together.
I found this thread while looking over stickied threads the other day and wanted to mention it so you might find help with your last 3 weeks.
Thank you for the insight, Ziggy's Gal. I appreciate the tips on how to read the text effectively and will do that on my next exam. I enjoy reading and am an efficient reader, I like the tips you suggested and will implement them for our next unit, muscles, which has started yesterday, officially.
I assume that your units are like ours, muscles, brain, skin, etc. Sometimes she breaks up the material into 2 exams ( 1 micro and 1 gross and functions, for example)
Can you tell me about how long it takes you to read and take notes and everything for each chapter? In chem last term it was taking me about 4-6 hours per unit, I just want to estimate how much time I should allot and what a reasonable pace is.
Can you also tell me what your study plan looks like?
For ex:
1. Read all the material in the text, make notes and answer review questions - est 4-6 hrs
2. Complete the labs - allow 2 hrs outside of class on average per lab
3. Review the outline that you made previously when you did the reading.
4. Review the study guide, creating flash cards as you go along.
5. 1 day prior to the exam: Talk out all concepts aloud, review flash cards,
6. The day of the exam: review the flashcards and notes 1 time each
???
I'd appreciate any tips on how to pace myself with only 4 days between exams, for example: one on Friday and one on Tuesday and one again on Monday and one on Friday.
Dear me. I think you should put down the shovel or at least stop digging. Even when you think that "not all of those people are the brightest apples" it really doesn't serve you to say so. Consider it this way -- it probably sounds better in your head than it does out loud. I am sure it doesn't sound very nice out loud to the LVNs and LVN students on this board.
I appreciate the tips on how to read the text effectively and will do that on my next exam. I enjoy reading and am an efficient reader, I like the tips you suggested and will implement them for our next unit, muscles, which has started yesterday, officially.
racquetmom
117 Posts
I didn't take your post condescending or offensive just wanted to state a different point of view as to why some may not be doing so well. In asking if you were curved to the 80 was seeing if everyone is in fact getting the low score and then curved up to a better score. Like someone says the instructor needs to look at how they are presenting the material as well as people need to take it on themselves and self teach. I found that in my A/P I, but had a marvelous teacher for A/P II.