Help me bring this into the public!

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · Oct 31, 2014

Regardless...if her state makes it a law, and she blatantly chooses to disregard said law, she should be reprimanded.
Actually, the current State law doesn't support the Governor's action. The law as stands restricts forced quarantine on those with a known infection. What Kaci is asking is for either reconsideration of his directive or judicial review; as required by our system of checks and balances. I'm no policy expert but I seem to remember an old poly-sci professor pounding it into us: A law that had been passed by legislature is nothing by itself. . . people may comply but the law wasn't legitimate until the judiciary reviewed it (when someone was charged with breaking the law) and either upheld it or revoked it. Maybe he was wrong, I'll admit I have minimal policy education.
Or how about that r/o TB patient that we place in a negative pressure room because their X-Ray came back suspect. I bet you don't walk into their room with an N95, and surely know that none of you nurses are going to let that patient roam the halls as you wait for their PPD.
Yes because wearing an N95 mask is appropriate and evidence-based practice for active (or suspected) TB infection. What would you think of a nurse who suited up in full gear to care for a patient with severe Epidermolysis Bullosa(severe blistering and peeling skin, non-infectious genetic skin disease)?. Would you chastise him or her for unneeded actions based on personal bias that will likely psychologically harm the patient?
That's what the quarantine for unsymptomatic healthcare workers is, unneeded actions based on public bias that will not only unnecessarily impose on the generous do-gooder healthcare workers that volunteer but is likely to decrease the number of volunteers.
But according to you all, this patient should be allowed to do whatever because we are violating their civil liberties by forcing them into isolation over "A Possibility."

What you asking though is the similar to requiring all the nurses out there who do care for patients with TB, Hep B&C, HIV, Hanta virus (now there's a scary home-grown virus if you want to look that one up) being asking to self-isolate the whole time they are caring for such patients and for the designated incubation period after. I mean, there's a possibility they might have been exposed. . . and those diseases are much more prevalent, and pretty freaking deadly (if untreated). Ebola's lethality is likely largely due to the fact that it is largely untreated, or the most common treatment (what is offered in West Africa) is little more than provision of food, water, maybe anti-pyretics, maybe oral rehydration.

LilBitty · Oct 31, 2014

TiffyRN, I understand what you're saying. But, we know about these diseases that you have named. We know their mechanisms, we have treatments for these diseases. We do not know much about Ebola, and it would be very reckless not to be proactive as we find out more. As of now, your immune system is the only fail safe against Ebola. As with Duncan, you cannot rely on a transfusion if you are not a match. Their is an abundance of misinformation on the internet about this disease and it is only right that we do all that we can to protect the health of our citizens as we learn more about this disease and develop treatment for it. The people who contracted ebola in the States were in relatively good health. Whose to say how this could turn out if it hit a poverty stricken area. I may gamble with money, but I do not gamble with people's lives and sense of security.

Selfie · Oct 31, 2014

The fact is, we don't know all there is to know about Ebola. Science is constantly changing and evolving. What we think is true today is often not true 5, 10, 50 years from now, or even tomorrow. Just as I can be a carrier of the influenza virus be asymptomatic and still spread it to others, we don't know enough to say the same couldn't be true for Ebola. We still don't know why some people have gotten it, and others' haven't. There is still much to be learned. To ASSume otherwise, seems irresponsible, IMO.

More on what we still don't know, and why: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/31/health/genes-influence-ebola-infections-in-mice-study-suggests.html?_r=0

SWM2009 · Oct 31, 2014

I won't be signing the petition but I still don't agree with how blatantly rebellious KC is acting. There are right ways and wrong ways to make a point. She could get on blogs, write her congressmen, do things to bring about change so others would not have to go through it but she is acting like a 2 year old thumbing her nose at the legal system acting as if she is above the law and just too good to obey the quarantine. She is thumping her nose at them acting like she knows way much more than everyone else . I don't know how anyone else feels but I truly am embarrassed at her flagrant disregard for the law.Change things the right way, not this stomping your foot and saying "naner naner boo boo. Im not gonna stay in quarantine anyplace you put me, and that big old state government can't make me"

Law? You mean the "law" gov. Christie et. al threw together to pacify public hysteria?

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

One thing of note that I haven't seen addressed.

For decades, MSF personnel have been in areas where ebola, as well hantavirus and Marburg has been present. MSF has worked frequently in Hot Zones of infection. And in all of the time has Ebola or Marburg (another similar illness with high morbidity and mortality) been spread from their staff? We were not requiring isolation/quarantine of the personnel coming back stateside nor did any contacts contract these illnesses.

Some posters are raving about how contagious it is. Do you not think that at least a few MSF staff along with contacts would have come down with it?

I suspect this is not Kaci's first time doing mission work and is aware of how it is spread, more so than our politicians. And after the poor treatment at the onset, she has decided to not bow to panic and she is being honest. Unlike the MD that lied about maintaining quarantine and only admitted the truth when they tracked the metro card data.

LilBitty · Oct 31, 2014

How do you know they weren't quarantined? I can't find literature that states they were not quarantined. I have also read on several sites that quite a few of those workers have contracted ebola and a fraction of those have died. And whose point are you proving about being able to trust that these healthcare workers will abide by a voluntary quarantine and honestly report symptoms? The reason her return was problematic was because she read a 101 temp. I'm pretty sure they didn't know what to do and panicked to make sure every "t" was crossed and "i" dotted. So she was inconvenienced, big whoop. I'm really starting to care less and less about this lady the more I read on her. I wish her the best, but she better not develop Ebola.

macawake, MSN · Oct 31, 2014

Unlike the MD that lied about maintaining quarantine and only admitted the truth when they tracked the metro card data.

The accusations (by a sensationalist online tabloid publication) against the New York doctor, turned out to be untrue. Dr. Spencer didn't lie.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102132467

To those of you who think that this quarantine is a good idea, this is information straight from the horse’s mouth:

Ebola: Quarantine Can Undermine Efforts to Curb Epidemic | MSF USA

I suggest that you think long and hard about if you’re prepared to risk a situation where the outbreak continues to spread in West Africa, simply so you can allay the fears that you have.

Not only would people suffer and die needlessly in Africa, but it will also spread and affect us all. The outbreak needs to be stopped at the source.

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · Oct 31, 2014

Actually I just enjoyed reading the FAQ section on ebola & quarantine on the MSF website. Not easy to link right now, I'm on the smartphone. In this latest outbreak, MSF has had 24 HCW come down with ebola. 21 were local nationals, the majority were revealed to have had contact with ebola patients outside their work hours.

3 international workers have come down with ebola, out of 700 international HCW. The case of dr. Spenser (Spencer?) is still being investigated. The other two were exposed during times when they were not in full gear (when not expecting contact with ebola patients).

MSF does not recommend quarantine, they've had no issues and zero transmissions from former workers returning home (pending clearing dr. Spenser's & Kaci's contactS). They are concerned the progress they have made is going to be jeopardized by these unscientific decrees. Look at their statistics, they have thousands of patient contact hours.

OCNRN63, RN · Oct 31, 2014

How do you know they weren't quarantined? I can't find literature that states they were not quarantined. I have also read on several sites that quite a few of those workers have contracted ebola and a fraction of those have died. And whose point are you proving about being able to trust that these healthcare workers will abide by a voluntary quarantine and honestly report symptoms? The reason her return was problematic was because she read a 101 temp. I'm pretty sure they didn't know what to do and panicked to make sure every "t" was crossed and "i" dotted. So she was inconvenienced, big whoop. I'm really starting to care less and less about this lady the more I read on her. I wish her the best, but she better not develop Ebola.

Or what? Are you threatening her in some way in the unlikely event she would become ill? That sure sounded like a threat.

LilBitty · Oct 31, 2014

Good grief no one is threatening her. Get a life. It would be quite detrimental to her "cause" if she ended up developing ebola.

OCNRN63, RN · Oct 31, 2014

Generally, when someone says, "You'd better not do "x," it's followed with some sort of ultimatum.

My life is just fine. I'm not allowing myself to be overtaken by irrational fear.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 31, 2014

The accusations (by a sensationalist online tabloid publication) against the New York doctor, turned out to be untrue. Dr. Spencer didn't lie.
Here's why states don't trust voluntary Ebola quarantines
To those of you who think that this quarantine is a good idea, this is information straight from the horse’s mouth:
Ebola: Quarantine Can Undermine Efforts to Curb Epidemic | MSF USA
I suggest that you think long and hard about if you’re prepared to risk a situation where the outbreak continues to spread in West Africa, simply so you can allay the fears that you have.
Not only would people suffer and die needlessly in Africa, but it will also spread and affect us all. The outbreak needs to be stopped at the source.

Actually I got the info from from several sources, CNN for one.

To answer another's posters question, I am acquainted with some MSF stateside, and they have indicated having worked in areas that were considered hot zones (for various highly lethal microbes) and returned home without a mandatory quarantine. They get a thorough checkup, they advise certain monitoring and they are very aware of triggers for reporting. They may limit contacts for a time. But I am unaware of a 21 day quarantine to the extent that NJ mandates.

Think about it, MSF does not pay that well, and the MSF staff that i know may spend months in a locale and then work as prn staff stateside. The budget can be quite tight. Suddenly, days before they leave an assignment that they have been on, prior to it becoming listed as a hot zone, someone suddenly changes the rules of returning stateside. The change has nothing to do with evidence based practice and it will seriously impair your practice and livelyhood. I think anyone would be quite annoyed. You would cutdown on the care given to the hot zones, which actually worsens the situation and increases the risk of the disease spreading worldwide.

I know several MDs that say that quarantine would be completely unworkable if they resided in the affected states. Epidemiologists and other biomed experts are used to being able to go to the field, review situations on the ground, fly home, review the data or testing samples and basically doing work to help stop this. They cannot reasonably spend 21 days in quarantine away from their loved ones, unable to work the way they need to every trip that they make. I