Health Care Reform

tewdles, RN · Nov 12, 2009

When it comes to healthcare reform there are lots and lots of people looking out for #1

elkpark · Nov 12, 2009

So when someone gets free health care from MY LABOR would that be for profit on their part? Just curious. Because according to your definition it would be. It certainly wouldn't be from their labor would it?
After all your bills are paid, you've put something away for retirement, and have a nest egg wouldn't the rest be profit regardless of how you came by the money. When you invest in stocks and bonds what labor, other than research and writing the check do you have. Would what you make be a profit?
As for not-for-profit some of the biggest money makers are not-for-profit. LOL

I don't understand why so many people here keep carrying on about "free" healthcare. Rest assured, we all understand there is no free healthcare. We're just looking for a different system of financing healthcare. For instance, when you call 911 because you've been mugged or your house is on fire, the police or the fire department come and provide whatever services you need. You don't get a bill, because we all pay taxes to make sure the police and fire department will be there when needed. But everyone understands that we're all paying for those services. The police officers and firefighters get paid. People get the services they need when they need them. Why is it so incredibly difficult to think about healthcare in the same way???

Reminisce · Nov 12, 2009

I don't understand why so many people here keep carrying on about "free" healthcare. Rest assured, we all understand there is no free healthcare. We're just looking for a different system of financing healthcare. For instance, when you call 911 because you've been mugged or your house is on fire, the police or the fire department come and provide whatever services you need. You don't get a bill, because we all pay taxes to make sure the police and fire department will be there when needed. But everyone understands that we're all paying for those services. The police officers and firefighters get paid. People get the services they need when they need them. Why is it so incredibly difficult to think about healthcare in the same way???

I like the idea of us all paying for the service but as you or someone else posted in another forum which services would this include?

SilentMind · Nov 12, 2009

I don't understand why so many people here keep carrying on about "free" healthcare. Rest assured, we all understand there is no free healthcare. We're just looking for a different system of financing healthcare. For instance, when you call 911 because you've been mugged or your house is on fire, the police or the fire department come and provide whatever services you need. You don't get a bill, because we all pay taxes to make sure the police and fire department will be there when needed. But everyone understands that we're all paying for those services. The police officers and firefighters get paid. People get the services they need when they need them. Why is it so incredibly difficult to think about healthcare in the same way???

1) Police and fire departments are done on a city level. Which means each city has the right to assess their own needs, set their own tax rates, and decide whats in the best interest of their own people. The police department in NYC looks a lot different from the police department in Bangor, PA. So you actually have an individual choice whether or not you'd like to remain in NYC and pay the higher taxes for the additional services, or whether you'd prefer to find a smaller/cheaper town where perhaps the citizens don't need all that protection and won't have to pay for it. Healthcare on a federal level means you're financially responsible to do your share for every sickly/elderly person in the country.

2) I'd wager theres a dramatic difference in cost between health care needs of a specific population and their fire department needs. A single patient can run up a higher bill in one night then some fire departments run on in a week, or maybe even a month. "Lets all pay the same" doesn't sound too appealing when you're getting a once-a-year-if-you-remember-it-checkup, and you're helping to cover other patients who are recieving thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of care. It's like when you go out to eat and grab a salad, you're probably not going to be all too willing to split the check with four-course-lobster-man, are you?

GCTMT · Nov 12, 2009

Why does it have to be complicated. 4 pages maybe. Just do it. Try it. When someone feel nausea what's one of the easiest things to do. A cold cloth on their forehead and deep breathing. Works lots of times. Do they need an IV and meds and edoscopies and and and. KISS.

The bill isn't comlicated. It's been posted on this forum and it's in pdf format. One of the advantages of pdf is that one can search for words or phrases. For example, if you wanted to search for information on the exchange you could type in the search window the word "exchange" and read about it. That's how I learned about the details of the public option, I typed in the word "public".

If I wanted to read the whole bill, I could probably finish it in a couple days, I'm a student, I'm used to reading a lot. I'm sure you could do the same. Complaints about the length and complication of the bill are a red herring.

On the other hand, HR676 is about 25 pages long and as easy to understand as HR3692, 676 is the better bill. I'm quite confident however, that if if (676) were seriously being considered, opponents would complain that it was "too short".

tewdles, RN · Nov 13, 2009

1) police and fire departments are done on a city level. which means each city has the right to assess their own needs, set their own tax rates, and decide whats in the best interest of their own people. the police department in nyc looks a lot different from the police department in bangor, pa. so you actually have an individual choice whether or not you'd like to remain in nyc and pay the higher taxes for the additional services, or whether you'd prefer to find a smaller/cheaper town where perhaps the citizens don't need all that protection and won't have to pay for it. healthcare on a federal level means you're financially responsible to do your share for every sickly/elderly person in the country.
what you are forgetting, in your analogy, is that the smaller communities have the option to purchase the police and fire protection of larger communties...a small city may have its own small police force or it may opt to purchase police protection from the county, or from a larger adjacent city. we ought to have the same choice in healthcare, yes?
2) i'd wager theres a dramatic difference in cost between health care needs of a specific population and their fire department needs. a single patient can run up a higher bill in one night then some fire departments run on in a week, or maybe even a month. "lets all pay the same" doesn't sound too appealing when you're getting a once-a-year-if-you-remember-it-checkup, and you're helping to cover other patients who are recieving thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of care. it's like when you go out to eat and grab a salad, you're probably not going to be all too willing to split the check with four-course-lobster-man, are you?

you are already splitting the check with him...remember that 16% of the gdp fact?

elkpark · Nov 13, 2009

"Lets all pay the same" doesn't sound too appealing when you're getting a once-a-year-if-you-remember-it-checkup, and you're helping to cover other patients who are recieving thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of care. It's like when you go out to eat and grab a salad, you're probably not going to be all too willing to split the check with four-course-lobster-man, are you?

So far, you may be a once-a-year check-up person, but tomorrow you could be the one needing "thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of care." Anything can happen to anyone at any time.

SilentMind · Nov 13, 2009

So far, you may be a once-a-year check-up person, but tomorrow you could be the one needing "thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of care." Anything can happen to anyone at any time.

The difference of course, being that I don't feel entitled to have other people pay for that care for me.

Onekidneynurse · Nov 13, 2009

I don't understand why so many people here keep carrying on about "free" healthcare. Rest assured, we all understand there is no free healthcare. We're just looking for a different system of financing healthcare. For instance, when you call 911 because you've been mugged or your house is on fire, the police or the fire department come and provide whatever services you need. You don't get a bill, because we all pay taxes to make sure the police and fire department will be there when needed. But everyone understands that we're all paying for those services. The police officers and firefighters get paid. People get the services they need when they need them. Why is it so incredibly difficult to think about healthcare in the same way???

With the present bill there would be free care. Those who can't afford healthcare insurance will get it paid for by the government. There is free care now. And a lot of it.

allnurses Guide · Nov 14, 2009

With the present bill there would be free care. Those who can't afford healthcare insurance will get it paid for by the government. There is free care now. And a lot of it.

How do we help sick people who don't get care find out about this free care?

tewdles, RN · Nov 15, 2009

How do we help sick people who don't get care find out about this free care?

This is a good question. Getting sick people the care they need without putting them into bankrupcy is part of what this reform is all about. If we can accomplish this without upsetting the apple cart, all the better. Currently, I work closely with MSWs who are experts at this, and I am not hearing of many options in our current system.

fenders · Nov 23, 2009

I hope you guys go through with it. I think it'll be worth it.

pretty happy with our own system, could use some minor tweaking.

Canadian RN