Health Care Reform

SilentMind · Dec 9, 2009

However I also believe that the public option is a necessary component of healthcare reform. Why? One, competing with the public option will force the private insurance companies to keep their costs down. I really don't feel bad for the multi-millionaires and billionaires that will have to see their pay cut- or the stockholders that will lose a little cash as the industry adjusts to the public option. Profit is NOT a right in a capitalist system. Second, because it works elsewhere. If you want to call it "socialism," then I'll say that socialized health insurance works. Actually, I'd say that a system that combines socialized insurance with private insurance works best. Look at the WHO's world healthcare system rankings by nation. Many of the top countries have a mix of socialized and private insurance. Countries with a more or less purely public system rank lower- such as the UK and Canada- but many still above the U.S. Cuba is only ranked ONE below the US- and they still have a lower infant mortality rate than we do. I'll also note here that opponents of the public option have been using the term "socialized medicine" rampantly in the media. This is a semantic falsehood- there is nothing in this bill that will socialize hospitals or clinics, something implied in the term "socialized medicine." We're talking about publicly-funded insurance here.

I'm pretty sure the public option was already shot down in the senate. Ideally, a public option competing with private companies to keep costs down would be a great benefit to the consumer. That isn't the case.

The public option isn't just an insurance company that takes profit out of the equation to compete with for profit insurance companies. But through government subsidies, it actually runs on negative profit (which isn't an issue when the taxpayers are fronting) which makes it absolutely impossible for private companies to compete. Eventually, there is only the public option which is as much "socialized medicine" as anything. They don't need to control the hospitals or the clinics, when they're the only one paying, they're the only ones calling the shots. They get to decide exactly what they feel like paying for each service, which services they'd like to cover and should be offered, and ultimately...even with subsidies, financial strains will force even a non profit to trim the fat. Which can only come from the bottom line.

But, I'm not trumping competition in the least. It's actually the basis of the free market capitalist system. Without competition, corporations are free to financially rape the people at will. But with so much money to be made in this industry, why is it that other corporations haven't stepped in and kept these in check? The promise of huge bonuses should be attracting the best and the brightest of the buisness world. Except that you know, it doesn't. Because there are already laws on the books preventing competition. Only certain companies are allowed to sell insurance in each state. And they're not able to go next door and set up shop at will. The state governments are already bought off by the insurance companies to ensure that they stay nice and comfortable. The current shortcomings in the private insurance sector are not, as many would like to claim, the failures of capitalism. In fact, it's just the opposite. Legal protections for certain companies to protect them against free market forces = bad news for the consumers. This needs to change.

In pushing for a public option, it's like drinking to kill a hangover. Government is the reason competition is stifled, and you expect them to come in and provide that competition either 1) Fairly 2) Efficiently or 3) Ethically.

I'm sick of the ideological battle surrounding healthcare reform- using buzzwords like "socialism" and "capitalism" to make arguments for or against certain aspects of the plan. We should be approaching this problem pragmatically and not worrying about what words can be used to describe the solutions. Using a publicly-funded option can help keep costs down, and harnessing the forces of competition on the free-market can help make sure the quality of coverage stays high- but at the end of the day, what matters is whether or not Americans can see a doctor when they need to. Right now, that is absolutely not the case for millions- including myself, being a student who works part-time.

As a student working part time, I can afford to see a doctor when I need to. I've been paying for health insurance for years, and I took my first checkup this year since 06. My current finances are starting to slip, and honestly...I'm not sure that continuing to shell out $100 a month is really in my best interests for a service I don't need. Whats matters to me, is not letting the federal government come in and tell me where I need to be spending my money.

Furthermore, assuming that coverage alone is equal to being able to see a doctor is a common misconception. We already have a public option designed for the aging population, and a great deal of those on medicare have trouble finding doctors that are willing to jump through all the government hoops to earn half of what they make on other patients. Here's some additional reading on the subject. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

The fact is, the insurance industry is dumping more money into killing healthcare reform than anyone- and that should say something. The only reason any corporation spends money is because they think it'll make them money in the long run- and thus far the private health insurance industry has been making their money by screwing over their customers. Protecting their profits should not be the concern of OUR representatives.

The concern of OUR representatives, and I say this very tenatively, is to be the peoples voice in government. Mostly, they do whatever they can get away with in their own interests and throwing money to pet projects for their buddies corporations. But in theory, they're supposed to be our voice. And the last poll I saw was 51%-41% against the bill. People don't want to have to shoulder enormous costs to enact a change that's really pretty hit or miss at this point. People that support this bill seem blindly idealistic, supporting change in general, rather then anything specific about this particular plan. The costs are astronomical, even by democratic projections, and there's absolutely nothing to hint that it will be any more successful then our current system. This is one of the many problems that just cant be fixed by throwing money at it.

tewdles, RN · Dec 10, 2009

but, i'm not trumping competition in the least. it's actually the basis of the free market capitalist system. without competition, corporations are free to financially rape the people at will. but with so much money to be made in this industry, why is it that other corporations haven't stepped in and kept these in check? the promise of huge bonuses should be attracting the best and the brightest of the buisness world. except that you know, it doesn't. because there are already laws on the books preventing competition. only certain companies are allowed to sell insurance in each state. and they're not able to go next door and set up shop at will. the state governments are already bought off by the insurance companies to ensure that they stay nice and comfortable. the current shortcomings in the private insurance sector are not, as many would like to claim, the failures of capitalism. in fact, it's just the opposite. legal protections for certain companies to protect them against free market forces = bad news for the consumers. this needs to change.
by and large, insurance companies lobbied state governments to protect their own interests. the laws are a byproduct of their effort which then qualifies them as a byproduct of capitalism.
in pushing for a public option, it's like drinking to kill a hangover. government is the reason competition is stifled, (not if industry lobbied for the laws) and you expect them to come in and provide that competition either 1) fairly 2) efficiently or 3) ethically.
as a student working part time, i can afford to see a doctor when i need to. i've been paying for health insurance for years, and i took my first checkup this year since 06. my current finances are starting to slip, and honestly...i'm not sure that continuing to shell out $100 a month is really in my best interests for a service i don't need. whats matters to me, is not letting the federal government come in and tell me where i need to be spending my money. i can see you point entirely...i faced and made that choice both as a young person and as a middle aged person. why should someone else get to decide what my fixed expenses are...right? here's the rub...millions of people don't have insurance either by chance or by design and the cost of taking care of them when the fall and break etc is costing us 16% of our gdp. we cannot afford to continue to manage the health of this citizenry in this fashion for much longer. healthcare costs alone...if we do nothing...will consume 20% of our gdp in only a few short years. part of the fix would require that all working citizens contribute.
furthermore, assuming that coverage alone is equal to being able to see a doctor is a common misconception. we already have a public option designed for the aging population, and a great deal of those on medicare have trouble finding doctors that are willing to jump through all the government hoops to earn half of what they make on other patients. here's some additional reading on the subject. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html

the fact is, the insurance industry is dumping more money into killing healthcare reform than anyone- and that should say something. the only reason any corporation spends money is because they think it'll make them money in the long run- and thus far the private health insurance industry has been making their money by screwing over their customers. protecting their profits should not be the concern of our representatives.you and i are on exactly the same page here.

the concern of our representatives, and i say this very tenatively, is to be the peoples voice in government. mostly, they do whatever they can get away with in their own interests and throwing money to pet projects for their buddies corporations. [color=#800080]and certainly some of those corporate friends are insurance companies.but in theory, they're supposed to be our voice. and the last poll i saw was 51%-41% against the bill. people don't want to have to shoulder enormous costs to enact a change that's really pretty hit or miss at this point. people that support this bill seem blindly idealistic, supporting change in general, rather then anything specific about this particular plan. the costs are astronomical, even by democratic projections, and there's absolutely nothing to hint that it will be any more successful then our current system. this is one of the many problems that just cant be fixed by throwing money at it.

i don't see that they are only throwing money at this problem. that is part of the reason that people are so afraid of this reform. because it is representing change...a deviation from the status quo...a shaking of the tree if you will. the topic of healthcare reform has generated a huge debate in this country, and generally our country benefits when we debate rather than shout at each other. i for one appreciate the ability to have a civil discussion, give and take on a thoughtful level.

BSnurse2010 · Dec 23, 2009

I disagree with the current Health Reform. I do not think that providing health insurance to everyone is a logical fix. This will cost tax payers an extreme amount of money, and will cause the government to be in even more debt.

I realize that something needs to be done to make healthcare more affordable. However, I think that we should be focusing on the main problems- lowering healthcare cost, and providing more jobs. This will allow more people to afford health care, rather than letting them live for free!

Another reason I disagree with this Reform is because our government has not had success in running other programs- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. We are already in debt over our heads because of these programs. Maybe we should try and figure out a way to make these programs work.

Boognish · Dec 23, 2009

Another reason I disagree with this Reform is because our government has not had success in running other programs- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. We are already in debt over our heads because of these programs. Maybe we should try and figure out a way to make these programs work.

What do you base this assertion on? When Bush took office, the federal government had a budget SURPLUS. He certainly wasn't a champion of the programs you mentioned. Yet he drove the debt up to astronomical levels. He did so by cutting taxes to the wealthiest taxpayers in the nation while waging a war that has cost us nearly $1 trillion so far. And then, as a final "screw you" to the American Taxpayer, he gave nearly that much as a free gift to Wall Street (though to be fair, as soon as he took office Obama gave the job of selecting his economic team to an active Citigroup executive, who proceeded to choose Timothy Geithner, one of the engineers of the bailout, to be the Secretary of Treasury- conflicts of interest that would be criminal in a more sane system of government).

DogWmn · Dec 27, 2009

I think the USA has a golden opportunity to design the very best health care system in the world. We would be the last of the Western Countries to get on board with a "universal type health care program". We have the opportunity to evaluate everyone else's systems and determine what's good and what's bad and from that create one that works for people in the USA. It's not something that would happen over night, and I would think it would be done with changes in steps over a period of years and decades even.

As a nurse, I'm shocked by the lack of compassion the people of the USA have for their fellow humans. When did we as individuals and a nation become so greedy? So lacking in compassion for the least among us? I would also wish that everyone see the documentary Sicko by Michael Moore, you might not agree with his politics but he does make some very good points about our broken health care system.

The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to make money that is their business and as one poster put it, we should not a have health care system as a for profit industry. Our health care systems should be based on the ability to pay something NOT ... IF you can pay you can be treated.

After a lifetime of working my butt off, I'm now one of the millions that is unemployed and uninsured. Even when I worked my premiums were costly, I made 35,000. per year, my monthly premium was $195. and the cost of my monthly Rx's WITH a prescription card was over $185. a month. That's $380. out of pocket expenses, before I pay my mortgage, before I pay a utility bill. I was barely scraping by and then I got sick, really sick. I was driven into debt and now I'm unemployed and uninsured. I can't get insurance even if I could afford it at today's rates because I'm 59 years old and have the dreaded "pre-existing conditions". It's humiliating after working hard all my life to be in this situation. I'm not a slacker nor are most of the millions who are currently unemployed and uninsured. This financial crash has brought our flawed Health Care System to the fore front.

I also hope, that no one working today with some form of health insurance, ever has a catastrophic event that drives them into debt and bankruptcy because of our current health care system. I hope they all stay healthy and don't have to go through what I, and many others have had to face.

Onekidneynurse · Dec 29, 2009

I think the USA has a golden opportunity to design the very best health care system in the world. We would be the last of the Western Countries to get on board with a "universal type health care program". We have the opportunity to evaluate everyone else's systems and determine what's good and what's bad and from that create one that works for people in the USA. It's not something that would happen over night, and I would think it would be done with changes in steps over a period of years and decades even.
As a nurse, I'm shocked by the lack of compassion the people of the USA have for their fellow humans. When did we as individuals and a nation become so greedy? So lacking in compassion for the least among us? I would also wish that everyone see the documentary Sicko by Michael Moore, you might not agree with his politics but he does make some very good points about our broken health care system.
The insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to make money that is their business and as one poster put it, we should not a have health care system as a for profit industry. Our health care systems should be based on the ability to pay something NOT ... IF you can pay you can be treated.
After a lifetime of working my butt off, I'm now one of the millions that is unemployed and uninsured. Even when I worked my premiums were costly, I made 35,000. per year, my monthly premium was $195. and the cost of my monthly Rx's WITH a prescription card was over $185. a month. That's $380. out of pocket expenses, before I pay my mortgage, before I pay a utility bill. I was barely scraping by and then I got sick, really sick. I was driven into debt and now I'm unemployed and uninsured. I can't get insurance even if I could afford it at today's rates because I'm 59 years old and have the dreaded "pre-existing conditions". It's humiliating after working hard all my life to be in this situation. I'm not a slacker nor are most of the millions who are currently unemployed and uninsured. This financial crash has brought our flawed Health Care System to the fore front.
I also hope, that no one working today with some form of health insurance, ever has a catastrophic event that drives them into debt and bankruptcy because of our current health care system. I hope they all stay healthy and don't have to go through what I, and many others have had to face.

Please don't call a commerical endeavour for PROFIT by an uninformed Hollywood ______ a documentary. Talk about greed. Do you know how much money MM made from that movie. Do you know that corporate America gives lots of money to good causes. Let's ask MM how much he donated? Will the US Government give money to charity? NO They don't make any money. They just take money. And they can't run any program efficiently. The US Post Office is BILLIONS of $ in debt. One reason is because they decided to be benevolent and not increase their fees when gas was $4 a gallon. So they just went into the red. Is that how you want healthcare to be run in this country. Most UHC programs in other countries are in serious debt themselves. Mass has only had it's program and couple/3 years and it's on the verge. Their ER visits are actually UP since it's inception.

When you got sick, how would health insurance have kept your job for you? You see people just want more and more.

Many people are getting plenty of care. And if you did go into bankruptcy you got your health care for free. Correct?

Onekidneynurse · Dec 29, 2009

I repeat...we can and should do better...do you have any suggestions or are you satisfied with the status quo? Do you feel that we can continue on our path of exploding costs which will result in health care costs consuming 20% of our GDP within a few short years while we have increasing numbers of people who have limited access to affordable care?

Please tell me specifically how and when the COST of healthcare will come down?????????? Has the cost of food come down, clothes, even those from China, etc. COSTS will not come down. It's just not gonna happen.

Did you know there are only 2 states in the UNION where you can find out the cost of medical procedures etc. Care to guess which 2 states that might be? And care to guess what the range is for some procedures.

ABD CT scan anywhere from $650-$1250 all in the same state. Health care is the only commodity that people just go in and get without a clue as to what they are being charged.

SilentMind · Dec 29, 2009

Pathetic really, the sentiments of this country. Noone actually cares what the effects on this country are. Noone thinks that far ahead. Health care reform is a lot like Obama, really. Noone actually supports him. They're just tired of the opposite. Liberals can't be orificed to think about why things are broken. They just want the easy solution that presents itself. The health care reform doesn't bother to address the problems with health care accessibility and costs. It just offers an alternative with all the same problems.

GCTMT · Dec 29, 2009

Please don't call a commerical endeavour for PROFIT by an uninformed Hollywood ______ a documentary. Talk about greed. Do you know how much money MM made from that movie. Do you know that corporate America gives lots of money to good causes. Let's ask MM how much he donated? Will the US Government give money to charity? NO They don't make any money. They just take money. And they can't run any program efficiently. The US Post Office is BILLIONS of $ in debt. One reason is because they decided to be benevolent and not increase their fees when gas was $4 a gallon. So they just went into the red. Is that how you want healthcare to be run in this country. Most UHC programs in other countries are in serious debt themselves. Mass has only had it's program and couple/3 years and it's on the verge. Their ER visits are actually UP since it's inception.
When you got sick, how would health insurance have kept your job for you? You see people just want more and more.
Many people are getting plenty of care. And if you did go into bankruptcy you got your health care for free. Correct?

Getting really sick means that you will have to spend time in the hospital, which means that you could lose your job, which means that you could lose your insurance that's tied to your job.

Makes no sense at all.

There is no "want" when it comes to health care. If ones is seriously sick, they have to have it or it could put their health or life in danger. It's a need, not a want.

Bankruptcy ruins your credit and many can not file or they would lose everything they have ever worked for, because they got sick.

GCTMT · Dec 29, 2009

Please tell me specifically how and when the COST of healthcare will come down?????????? Has the cost of food come down, clothes, even those from China, etc. COSTS will not come down. It's just not gonna happen.
Did you know there are only 2 states in the UNION where you can find out the cost of medical procedures etc. Care to guess which 2 states that might be? And care to guess what the range is for some procedures.
ABD CT scan anywhere from $650-$1250 all in the same state. Health care is the only commodity that people just go in and get without a clue as to what they are being charged.

Health care is not a commodity, it's a need.

GCTMT · Dec 29, 2009

Pathetic really, the sentiments of this country. Noone actually cares what the effects on this country are. Noone thinks that far ahead. Health care reform is a lot like Obama, really. Noone actually supports him. They're just tired of the opposite. Liberals can't be orificed to think about why things are broken. They just want the easy solution that presents itself. The health care reform doesn't bother to address the problems with health care accessibility and costs. It just offers an alternative with all the same problems.

The plan currently being offered as reform will make small gains regarding accessibility and cost. It's a start, not the end of the process.

tewdles, RN · Dec 29, 2009

Please tell me specifically how and when the COST of healthcare will come down?????????? Has the cost of food come down, clothes, even those from China, etc. COSTS will not come down. It's just not gonna happen.
Did you know there are only 2 states in the UNION where you can find out the cost of medical procedures etc. Care to guess which 2 states that might be? And care to guess what the range is for some procedures.
ABD CT scan anywhere from $650-$1250 all in the same state. Health care is the only commodity that people just go in and get without a clue as to what they are being charged.

Costs must be contained. Currently the escalation of cost of health care has much to do with the cost of insurance premiums, the cost of medications, and the cost of hospital care. A reasonable portion of those costs is directly related to insuring a profit for the interested parties in those arenas. This escalation is putting people into the poor house and is nearing the end of our ability as a country to sustain it as a business, much less as a needed system for the citizenry.

The most valuable asset of this country is the population. IMHO, we need to find a way to take profit mongering out of the equation for basic health care in this country. It is the pursuit of profit, many times, that makes a CT scan twice as expensive in one facility as compared to another. There was an excellent article recently linked in allnurses which explored exactly this phenomenon in Texas. The authors of the article found that the difference in cost was, by and large, directly related to who owned the scanner and whether or not they were for-profit or not-for-profit health care centers. We have good evidence in this country that excellent medical care is not necessarily the most expensive care. Mayo clinic has a philosophy for delivery of care that can be replicated.

So, am I a pie in the sky hippie who thinks that we could all live in utopia? No. I am an optimist, however, and I believe that we can do better. I AM skeptical about how we can largely have politicians, lobbyists, and lawyers writing health insurance reform and actually benefit the general public, but that is the system we currently have available to us. Do I think that we can get costs to go down? Probably not, but we can eliminate some of the greed which gets between Joe Blow uninsured and his knee surgery, so that he can go back to work.