Before we get into it, I'm going into first year nursing... but I'm not some young kid. I'm 34, married with a family, studied philosophy in my early 20's, and lived well below the poverty line for my entire life. I'm saying this to avoid any fallacious arguments stemming from status or authority.
Now that's out of the way...
Why is health care not a right?
It's not a right because it requires others to fund your health care costs. You do not have a right to the money of other people.
What about those in need of health care?
We all love helping people, and that's important. Which is why there are countless organizations, churches, synagogues, companies, online charitable organizations, and other opportunities for your access.
If health care is a right, it's immoral.
A socialist view of health care requires the theft of citizens money through taxation to fund your health care needs. Just because I need health care does not mean I can take money of others, even when done through governmental force.
What's the difference between access to things like fire services, and health care services? They're all services aren't they?
The difference is that citizens who pay for services should receive services. Taxation pays for fire services, people are therefore owed that service.Consider, outside of municipalities where services aren't paid for, firefighting is volunteer, or paid for out of pocket. At least that's how it works in Canada...
When is health care a right then?
When you pay for it, however, it's a contractual right. Not a human right. I'm owed the service because I paid for it, that's it.
Who's responsible to take care of me then?
You are. Crazy idea right?
Are there exceptions?
Obviously, those with zero capacity to care for themselves.
I suspect heading into a Canadian nursing program with my views will be an interesting experience.
Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
May I ask, do you find the pay to be better though? The taxation has to be less. In Canada, you can be taxed in Ontario almost 50%.
No the pay is the same, only my sanity is much better :) I believe the US has the highest healthcare costs in the world and our taxes are not cheap. I owe quite a bit of taxes every year.
...but doesn't the rule become the exception? A simple infected toe can progress to the point that a patient dies. So do we wait until the patient can no longer work, is at death's door, and is completely helpless before we intervene? From a practical standpoint, that sounds like a very expensive way to deal with a problem.
I understand what you're saying, and of course I wouldn't wish medical problems on anyone! I truly feel socialized health care is wrong though... so I suppose it's a complicated issue. Maybe a true free market health care system would drive costs down to make health care more affordable?
I understand what you're saying, and of course I wouldn't wish medical problems on anyone! I truly feel socialized health care is wrong though... so I suppose it's a complicated issue. Maybe a true free market health care system would drive costs down to make health care more affordable?
I neither agree or disagree with healthcare as a "right" ...but neither do you, apparently.
No free healthcare ...well, unless you really need it folks! It's not as if people who don't need it will be signing up for kidney transplants because they're free.
Reminds me of a special education teacher who believes in "survival of the fittest".
Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
I understand what you're saying, and of course I wouldn't wish medical problems on anyone! I truly feel socialized health care is wrong though... so I suppose it's a complicated issue. Maybe a true free market health care system would drive costs down to make health care more affordable?
Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
There is a great news video on Youtube that has some really relevant information comparing the US and Canadian healthcare systems. I can't post the link so just go to Youtube and search for MSNBC Ali Velshi destroys GOP Congressman and let me know what you think. The interesting parts for you will start at about 3 minutes.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic... but how would you feel about a true free market health care system?
I'm not being sarcastic. From what I know, I'd be for a free market healthcare system, as I think it would drive down costs and increase competition. What are your thoughts?
Specializes in UR/PA, Hematology/Oncology, Med Surg, Psych.
I'm not being sarcastic. From what I know, I'd be for a free market healthcare system, as I think it would drive down costs and increase competition. What are your thoughts?
Prior to ObamaCare, which by the way I don't care for because it didn't go far enough, when has a free market healthcare system EVER worked? You want to trust a for-profit company to make the cheapest insurance policies? Health insurance companies exist to make as much money as possible.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
May I ask, do you find the pay to be better though? The taxation has to be less. In Canada, you can be taxed in Ontario almost 50%.
Depends on the state. Throughout the years I have cleared roughly 2/3 of what I grossed. But none of that money covered my health care. That was employer-paid. Some jobs don't start paying your health care premium until you've been there 3 months. So you have to continue your previous coverage at your own expense or be uninsured and hope nothing catastrophic happens.
Here's what's really interesting: When I first moved to the States 30 years ago, I heard nothing but propaganda about how terrible the Canadian healthcare system is. The wait times were horrendous, yada yada. (They were just as bad here.)
Now, for some reason, public sentiment has flipped. Now the Canadian healthcare system (which is not nationalized, but the way; it's administered provincially) is a shining example of what healthcare should be. I laughed at the propaganda then, and I laugh at it now.
Two of the reasons the system has worked in Canada: smaller population, less cumbersome to administer (back in the 60s the entire population of Canada was roughly 20 million); and it didn't replace a previously-existing behemoth of a system.
Well, if I'm honest that's a complex question. If one chooses to not get insurance, who's problem is that? As for not being able to afford it if there is no coverage, the avg house where I live in Ontario is going for half a million... I mean, really? Ontario needs to flip the bill for someone to have their kids ears pinned back, lol For the love of God.
I don't think being unable to afford the full cost of insurance is really the same choosing not to buy insurance. And I agree that if the complexities of funding a healthcare system was only based on $3000 cosmetic surgeries then it's a fairly simple issue; just say if you can't afford it then you can't have it. But that's not issue, the vast majority of healthcare spending are highly variable costs for the purpose of reducing suffering and avoiding unnecessary death. So back to the question you avoided, what should happen when someone hasn't been able to buy insurance and is unlikely to ever have hundreds of thousands the treatment they need may cost, what should happen, how should the system work instead?
I'm not being sarcastic. From what I know, I'd be for a free market healthcare system, as I think it would drive down costs and increase competition. What are your thoughts?
I feel the same way. As I understand it though, someone here would know more (maybe you?), but isn't the current US health care system highly regulated? I mean, you can't call up a company to get a quote on what the cheapest xray is... or am I wrong here? In a true free market, this would be possible, and would drive down costs as competition increased.
Zyprexa
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Not me, I'm 100% capitalist. I'm not a libertarian though, but I definitely want much less government involvement.