Have you ever heard of this? UGH!!!!

fronkey bean · Jul 22, 2007

:lol2:

"It tastes like chicken"...

queenjean · Jul 22, 2007

By starting the thread, I wasn't trying to bash the practice. Yes, there is an "ew" factor in it for me, but I question the safety of the practice. For some reason, the first thing I thought of when I read the article was the book Deadly Feasts: Tracking the Secrets of a Terrifying New Plague by Richard Rhodes which traces the origins of certain types of spongiform encephalopathies. I am not a microbiologist and don't pretend to be, but it did lead me to question this practice. In the book, the author talks about a form of spongiform encephalopathy known as kuru which occurred in New Guinea among people who ate the flesh of their dead relatives after they died. This was a common practice in their culture. I know that eating placenta and dead relatives are two different things, but it does make me wonder if there could be some possible unknown risks to this practice that people do not know about. Maybe there are risks as well as benefits. If people want to do this, more power to them, but I still question the safety of it. Anyway, I understand and appreciate your position. I just wanted you to know that mine was based more on science than "ew."

From what I remember from school, kuru is caused by eating CNS portions, specifically the brain tissue. I think kuru is the human equivalent of mad cow disease. I may be wrong, it's been a while since I read anything about this. But even if I am right, I see your point in that there may be negatives that we know nothing about. My opinion is that, as long as someone is willing to take responsibility for their actions, and they recognize that there isn't a lot of research in this field, if they want to consume their placenta, alrighty then.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2007

My opinion is that, as long as someone is willing to take responsibility for their actions, and they recognize that there isn't a lot of research in this field, if they want to consume their placenta, alrighty then.

Ooh, ooh, can I play Devil's Advocate?

Nowhere in my earlier posts did I say that the mother should have or should not have been permitted to take the placenta home, I didn't make a call on that one way or the other. But, seeing this line of thinking that it could potentially be a dangerous practice, not just an unpleasant thought for the rest of us, got me thinking, too.

So, here's the flip side to the "as long as they know there's risks" argument:

Ok, you--the OB nurse--has asked the new mom if she'd like to take the placenta home for ingestion or burial. The new mom says "oh, yes, I didn't know I could do that". You, the nurse, say "people do it alot more than you'd think; sometimes they eat it, and sometimes they bury it". "Gosh", thinks the new mom, "this is a GREAT idea".

So she brings the thing home and eats it. And promptly gets sick (whatever purported sickness might be attributed to this, who knows). So she gets a nice friendly lawyer who sues the pants off the nurse and the hospital who told her that it was, essentially, "fine" to eat the placenta, and that it's the hospital's standard practice to offer it up after the birth. After all, why would the hospital be offering her or "allowing" her to take this particular cut of meat home if it were not SAFE?? This is a medical hospital, isn't it?

Did you also offer her and her mate a list of reasons why she should NOT eat it? How to prepare it so she's not likely to become ill? Why she might become ill if eating it, and that it's done at her own risk....and you've handed her the lengthy release form that indicates that the hospital and you are in no way encouraging her to do this and that if she does, it's at her own risk? Has she and her mate signed this form, indicating that that she fully understands that there's not much research in this particular area and that it may, in fact, be a dangerous practice? Have you had two witnesses sign to indicate that the mother was not under the influence of any painkillers at the time she signed? What if the mother appears to be a Hormonal Helga after the birth, weepy and giggly and otherwise perhaps not in the best frame of mind to sign a legal document? That's now your call to make, too, I guess?

/Devil's Advocate Session :)

EmmaG, RN · Jul 22, 2007

Continuing the devil's advocate session just a wee bit...

There are cases where patients do really stupid things and have successfully sued hospitals, docs, and nurses for not "protecting them from themselves".

(was just reading up on some malpractice cases this evening)

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2007

Continuing the devil's advocate session just a wee bit...
There are cases where patients do really stupid things and have successfully sued hospitals, docs, and nurses for not "protecting them from themselves".
(was just reading up on some malpractice cases this evening)

Yep, this is exactly where I was going! How many times have people done stupid things that they WERE warned not to do, but somehow the loophole exists for a successful verdict anyway? And here would be a case of someone not being warned 'not to' do it, but instead getting the impression it was perfectly safe to do because it was the hospital's idea--or, it was their idea, but weren't told otherwise.

EmmaG, RN · Jul 22, 2007

Yep, this is exactly where I was going! How many times have people done stupid things that they WERE warned not to do, but somehow the loophole exists for a successful verdict anyway? And here would be a case of someone not being warned 'not to' do it, but instead getting the impression it was perfectly safe to do because it was the hospital's idea--or, it was their idea, but weren't told otherwise.

One of those cases was a drunk and disorderly patient in the ER who was restrained for his protection (and that of others), and in between the q 15 min checks, pulled a lighter from his pocket in an attempt to burn away the restraint, and ended up in flames, suffering severe burns as a result. He successfully sued on the grounds they didn't protect him from himself.

IMO, stuff like that is absurd. At some point, a little bit of personal responsibility for one's own actions needs to kick in.

But lawyers, courts, and juries don't see things that way. That's why there are ridiculous warnings on products, for example --- because some imbecile has attempted something stupid, was harmed, and then sued.

[/soapbox]

Heloisea3 · Jul 22, 2007

More devil's advocate.....

Wouldn't the FDA be responsible for deciding whether it is safe for consumption? Would they be liable for the consequences as well? Would they evaluate the hospital for safe handling and packaging of the material? Would it have an expiration date or "best if used by" date? Would they offer appropriate cooking temperatures? hmmm So many unanswered questions!

fronkey bean · Jul 22, 2007

More devil's advocate.....
Wouldn't the FDA be responsible for deciding whether it is safe for consumption? Would they be liable for the consequences as well? Would they evaluate the hospital for safe handling and packaging of the material? Would it have an expiration date or "best if used by" date? Would they offer appropriate cooking temperatures? hmmm So many unanswered questions!

no as long as no one made a claim that it cured a medical condition. That is how herbal remedies escape having to get FDA approval, by claiming to be a dietary supplement and not a medicine.

danissa, LPN, LVN · Jul 22, 2007

Yeah, but Tazzi - animals lick their babies behinds too!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 22, 2007

no as long as no one made a claim that it cured a medical condition. That is how herbal remedies escape having to get FDA approval, by claiming to be a dietary supplement and not a medicine.

Ah, yes, but only if applying the "drug" part of Food and Drug Administration. Anything that is sold or given away as a "food" also has to meet standards. And, well.....I guess this would be a "food" as well as "drug" (if you believe the claims) so yes, the FDA would be called into play.

queenjean · Jul 22, 2007

Well then, to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate--

We should just kill everyone now. At the very least, we should not allow them to make any decision about their care, because they cannot possibly know or understand the pros and cons of their decisions, not as well as their physicians and nurses do.

Because no one makes good or healthy decisions a lot of the time, and when those decisions go wrong, they sometimes look to someone else to blame, even when there is no blame.

So, when I tell someone to go home and eat meat, because they are low on iron, and then they go home and eat tainted meat, and get sick or die from E.coli, and they might sue me for it, well, I'm supposed to live in fear of this?

Nahh, I'll still support the patient being able to do what she wants with it. I'll even support it if I think it's a bad idea.

Ultimately it was her placenta. What she goes home and does with it is her responsibility. What she goes home and does with her baby is her responsibility, too. Am I responsible if she takes her baby home and kills it and eats it? Because I kissed the baby and said, "Oh, you taste yummy?" Because when she refused the antibiotic eye ointment, I made a comment of "He's your baby, you get to make the decisions." and she thought, hmmm, well, then I think I'll eat him?

I don't know, I guess I just don't fear people that much.

I also think there is a big difference between saying "Do you want to take your placenta home?" and saying, "Hey, it's really healthy to eat your placenta and we advocate that you do that."

bosnanurse · Jul 22, 2007

I found this very interesting question. In my biology class I remember my professor was mentioning something like that through the joke, and I dismissed it in my brain as impossible to picture. Then, now, when I read it I thought so, it does happen. So, I found these links for you .One explains views and another these questions about why and how to use, and …gosh… has many recipes to make it “good food”. Ha, God knows the best! Make my home very far away of these "nutrients".

http://www.tidesoflife.com/placenta.htm

http://www.moondragon.org/parenting/placentadisposalrituals.html