It's been discussed here MANY times....how student nurses plan, often even before doing any of their nursing classes, to become CRNA's or NP's. It's SO very typical.
Labor Day weekend, I was up north with the fam. My mom's BF's grandson (who is about 8 years younger than me) is going in to nursing school. We were discussing career paths, and what does he say? You guessed it...he's going to be an anesthetist. "Or a NP," he adds a short while later. (so as to avoid the "messy" part of nursing....)
I didn't say a thing. Far be it for me to burst his bubble (and it's not like he can't do it, if he so chooses). He just seems to think it'll be one straight shot from start to finish. I tried to talk about needing experience, etc, before getting in to a Master's program...nope, he wasn't hearing it. I wanted to say, do you KNOW how many people think they are going to do that? Didn't say that either.
The whole conversation was such a cliche, after what I've read here, that I had to stifle a chuckle. Time will tell, I guess.
There are some people who do go on to higher education in nursing, and during the process realize that most of the "education" is empty annoying rhetoric. And that nursing theory takes a subject that is easy to understand and twists it and beats it into submission in an attempt to provide a common nursing language. But instead NANDA and the overly educated nurse educators have created a whole dialogue of jibberish. Also, that most of the cherished influential nursing research falls under the heading of "no **** Sherlock" when all the meaningless rhetoric is stripped away.
I do sometimes wonder if medical school is the same?
I hear what you are saying. While the masters might make it on to my to do list, I have gone blue in the face telling people that are fairly newbie (like myself,
I know a woman who was shocked to come out of her MSN and not be offered a single job within a hundred miles of the city due to her lack of nursing experience. The MSN just can't stand on its own, it needs experience to back it up. And a reputable school that produces both BSN and MSN candidates flat out lectures its BSN students NOT to apply to grad school with less than two years in an RN job because they will NOT get a job.
Also, the people who bolted from the ICU at year 2 and a day for the CRNA make me smile. Even I know I haven't even learned enough to really "get" everything about my ER people. Goodness knows what these folks are missing about ICU patients. lol
I think the nonverbal communication we see and remember has a lot to do with some of our reactions. I was invited to give the convocation address at my Alma Mater last month. Afterwards, there were cocktails and hors d'oeuvres. Quite a few students clustered around me to ask questions about my educational path, or mission work, etc. A young man was hanging on the periphery of this group, listening, but he never spoke up. Thinking he might be shy, or unable just to get a word in edge wise, I asked him how he felt about beginning his new educational endeavors and did he have any questions or comments to share. His response was shockingly rude. He said, "I'm only going to nursing school for an undergrad degree before I go to medical school. I'm going to be a plastic surgeon, so i don't care much about this nursing stuff."
My response: a cool smile, accompanied by "how delightful."
His posture, inflection and tone indicated complete disdain for me, his peers and for Nursing. I was raised far too well to roll my eyes at people in public, but yes, I rolled them in my mind. This ignoramus said this to the keynote speaker at his convocation, in front of the Dean of his school and two of his professors :uhoh21: , who were mortified (as they should be, they did a pi$$ poor job vetting students this year apparently, lol) and apologized to me numberous times. In fact, I got a note from the Dean about a week later thanking me for my time and apologizing on behalf of that student, yet again. My guess is, he won't make it through freshman year because they have his number now and are going to make his life a living hell.
So yes, when I encounter someone with such a palpable attitude of antipathy and/or contempt for Nursing while they tell me their plans to do so much "better than" I/my colleagues have, yes, I roll my eyes. When the eager and humble student shares their hopes and goals with me, I cheer them on and do everything in my power to help them succeed.
I trust the people present to know the difference, and in this case, I think I, the OP and several others know clearly to whom we are referring, even if each gentle reader here does not, lol.
There are some people who do go on to higher education in nursing, and during the process realize that most of the "education" is empty annoying rhetoric. And that nursing theory takes a subject that is easy to understand and twists it and beats it into submission in an attempt to provide a common nursing language. But instead NANDA and the overly educated nurse educators have created a whole dialogue of jibberish. Also, that most of the cherished influential nursing research falls under the heading of "no **** Sherlock" when all the meaningless rhetoric is stripped away.
I do sometimes wonder if medical school is the same?
lol- I actually get the complete OPPOSITE conversations! I am currently a senior nursing student graduating in May. I love nursing school, and love nursing! When I tell people I am a nursing student, I constantly get... So when are your going to be an NP? Or- they'll just assume I'm going to be a NP. Can I just tell you- I have ZERO desire to be a NP! ZERO!!! I want to be an RN!!! I love bedside nursing!! My parents (My Mom especially) are constantly down my neck whenever we talk about it. I'll talk about the types of jobs I'd be interested in and she'll come back with, "And how soon before you'll be an NP?" I have to be like... "Ummmm- never, Mom.... I have no desire!" I'm sorry- but I think being an RN is one of the most amazing responsibilities ever! Why would I want to do anything else!? It can be very annoying sometimes!
I think the nonverbal communication we see and remember has a lot to do with some of our reactions. I was invited to give the convocation address at my Alma Mater last month. Afterwards, there were cocktails and hors d'oeuvres. Quite a few students clustered around me to ask questions about my educational path, or mission work, etc. A young man was hanging on the periphery of this group, listening, but he never spoke up. Thinking he might be shy, or unable just to get a word in edge wise, I asked him how he felt about beginning his new educational endeavors and did he have any questions or comments to share. His response was shockingly rude. He said, "I'm only going to nursing school for an undergrad degree before I go to medical school. I'm going to be a plastic surgeon, so i don't care much about this nursing stuff."
My response: a cool smile, accompanied by "how delightful."
His posture, inflection and tone indicated complete disdain for me, his peers and for Nursing. I was raised far too well to roll my eyes at people in public, but yes, I rolled them in my mind. This ignoramus said this to the keynote speaker at his convocation, in front of the Dean of his school and two of his professors :uhoh21: , who were mortified (as they should be, they did a pi$$ poor job vetting students this year apparently, lol) and apologized to me numberous times. In fact, I got a note from the Dean about a week later thanking me for my time and apologizing on behalf of that student, yet again. My guess is, he won't make it through freshman year because they have his number now and are going to make his life a living hell.
So yes, when I encounter someone with such a palpable attitude of antipathy and/or contempt for Nursing while they tell me their plans to do so much "better than" I/my colleagues have, yes, I roll my eyes. When the eager and humble student shares their hopes and goals with me, I cheer them on and do everything in my power to help them succeed.
I trust the people present to know the difference, and in this case, I think I, the OP and several others know clearly to whom we are referring, even if each gentle reader here does not, lol.
There are idiots in all walks of life, but the OP didn't make notion of iditos saying stupid things...she balked at people who ENTER nursing school with the desire to become an NP or CRNA. Do we laugh at an undergrad who says "I want to go into buisness management", or "I want to be a doctor"? Most doctors I know were never anything but, and I know PLENTY of people who got a bachelors in business and then entered a MBS program right away. I have know brilliant new nurses and nursing students, and then know some really dumb nurses who had been at it for decades! I'd rather the brilliant nursing students be my NP in 5 years than the dumb, experienced ones. How's this...I did a clinical in endoscopy one day and the nurse who I was with had been doing endoscopy for 8 years straight. One of the patients had a hiatal hernia so I went over to a diagram, asked her if I was "thinking this through" correctly (I proceded to explain and show here what I thought one was) and she said "Oh no, it's when bla bla bla" happens. Turns out she was not even near the ballpark of what a hiatal hernia was. I was appauled that one could be an endoscopy nurse for 8 years and and not know what a frikkin hiatal hernia was! Scary. She had no buisness teaching.
I trust the people present to know the difference, and in this case, I think I, the OP and several others know clearly to whom we are referring, even if each gentle reader here does not, lol.
This thread is part of the problem with nursing, and why so many people claim that nurses are not supportive of each other. I see nothing wrong with entering the nursing profession with dreams of advancing on very early in one's career. News flash...if said person can make it happen, it only means that they are more driven than those who cannot. If someone wants to work bedside, then so be it and we love you all for doing it! This profession NEEDS to have a variety of people who want to work bedside, become supervisors, educators, and Nurse Practitioners. And I'm sorry, but everyone does not need to work bedside for decades before moving on to bigger and better things in their life.
Yes, I see value in working bedside before becoming an NP or CRNA, but it is okay to have the aspirations to do so before starting. I am one of those who entered nursing primarily to become an NP, and guess what...I'm doing it! I got into an Accelerated BSN program on my first try, had a job at a prestigeous hospital with around 500 applicants before I graduated, then less than 6 months later got a more desired position that had yet again aroun 500 applicants. I was immediately accepted into an MSN Program and hope to have my PNP in about 3 years part time. Yes, I work bedside and clean poop, but I don't want to do it for years and years to come, so I will move on with my education and look forward to giving orders in 3 years as opposed to taking them . While you guys are rolling your eyes, I'm moving on toward a career path I'm excited about! Why is it so hard to support people? There is nothing wrong with having aspirations to become an NP, just as there is nothing wrong with having aspirations to be a bedside nurse for 40 years, because there is enough room in this profession for ALL of us! We all don't get to be astronauts, though:lol2:
I totally agree with everything you wrote here. I understand what the original post from that girl was about....but just because someone seems clueless about to get to CRNA, doesn't mean she should've rolled her eyes at the kid....she should've explained the process instead of biting her tongue.
I think it's awesome you are in school for NP and are achieving your dreams. There are a TON of different education levels of nursing and different nursing career paths for a reason. We are all not the same. I went into nursing solely to be a CRNA....I just started in the ICU. I hate when people seem to think bc you are not physically at the bedside of a patient, that you are not a nurse. Sounds pretty ignorant to me.
My sister is an O.R. nurse- very tough and different world in the O.R.....just because she isn't passing meds, hanging fluids, and cleaning up urine...doesn't mean she isn't a nurse.
People should be happy there are a ton of different career paths for nurses to choose from...we are very lucky. Can't think of many other professions that let you do that :)
The OP's example may or may not go into his field of intention, but he should be supported either way. If he makes it, great! If not, then he can just be like the rest of us who investigated their options and then changed their minds and are much happier for it.
I was absolutely positive I was going to be a NICU nurse when I graduated. No if's ands or buts about it. Until I had my first clinical at our Children's hospital in the general children's ward. Needless to say I did adult ICU/cardiac for years and eventually went into community health and then teaching. If you would have told me in school I would do community health I would have laughed in your face.
Med students are the same way, many of them completely change their mind when they go into their residencies.
I trust the people present to know the difference, and in this case, I think I, the OP and several others know clearly to whom we are referring, even if each gentle reader here does not, lol.
Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink. Aaaaaaaand a half mouth grin. :-D
. While you guys are rolling your eyes, I'm moving on toward a career path I'm excited about! Why is it so hard to support people? There is nothing wrong with having aspirations to become an NP, just as there is nothing wrong with having aspirations to be a bedside nurse for 40 years, because there is enough room in this profession for ALL of us! We all don't get to be astronauts, though:lol2:
rngreenhorn
317 Posts
There are some people who do go on to higher education in nursing, and during the process realize that most of the "education" is empty annoying rhetoric. And that nursing theory takes a subject that is easy to understand and twists it and beats it into submission in an attempt to provide a common nursing language. But instead NANDA and the overly educated nurse educators have created a whole dialogue of jibberish. Also, that most of the cherished influential nursing research falls under the heading of "no **** Sherlock" when all the meaningless rhetoric is stripped away.
I do sometimes wonder if medical school is the same?