Grade Inflation in Nursing School

[Rhapsody86]

I've just finished my first year of nursing school (BSN)! Whew! It was hard, but I've made all As, yet for some of those As, I don't feel as proud of them as I should be. Grade Inflation in the program is rampant in almost every class, if the teachers didn't throw out so many questions (in one instance threw out 20), some of my As would be Bs.

Then there's the other side, there's been tests that I did great on, got most of the answers right originally, but to help those that performed poorly many questions were thrown out. Thus, in the end, most made As and Bs, and my grade wasn't that stellar compared to everyone else. I really do believe that if this did not occur about 20% of my class would have flunked out of nursing school.

I'll add that I am a second-degree student, and for my first bachelor's I only had one class that the teacher used a curved and I cannot recall any class where the teacher threw out questions. Basically, you got what you deserved, and an A, B, C, F accurately reflected the seriousness of the student to learn and prepare for the exam. Everyone wants an A, but it's something that should be earned, it's not a gift.

I'm curious if there are any others out there that have had this experience and how you feel about it? Does it hurt the integrity of nursing programs, and possibly the nursing profession?

[ashleyisawesome, BSN, RN]

my school doesnt throw out questions. not even if the entire class got it wrong. not even if some one shows them proof that their answer is wrong. they will just talk in circles making it sound like they knew what they were doing, then move on and/or threaten to take away test reviews all together because we are arguing too much.

[gr8txrn2b]

I have a teacher that will throw out questions if we can show her that she was wrong. She does't curve grades because there is no need to. There are only about 20 students in the class and we are pretty much all on the same page. Last week we took a final and she told us that we were going to have about 15-20 new questions on the test from a chapter that we didnt get to go over in class due to weather and power outages...sure enough they were on there. After class we all got together and talked about it and nobody was prepared for it. Dont get me wrong, I did read the chapter and I do understand that whatever is in the book is fair game, but I can't LEARN Chinese unless sombody TEACHES it to me. I made a 73 on the exam but if it wasn't for those questions I calculated that I would have made 93...that's a big difference. We have class tomorrow and I hope she decides to throw out at least a few of them.

[Moogie]

What I am referring in my original post is just throwing out questions not because they are poorly written or a large number of students miss them, but just throwing out questions to insure that those that failed now pass. I'll give a good example. We had an exam with a passing average and there was a normal bell curve (originally, before questions were thrown out); however, afterwards about 10 questions were dropped to help those that didn't pass. We were told that the statistics of the test showed that all the questions were well tested and there was no reason to drop any as a result of poor testing. I should probably add that this hasn't happened in ALL my classes so far, but three of my classes have been like this.

I wonder if some of these instructors are being pressured into doing this. Administration can push instructors into this sort of practice by linking course outcomes (e.g., the number of students who pass with certain grades) to faculty retention. A high rate of attrition (students dropping out or flunking out) is not a good thing. The instructor who flunks out too many students may attract the attention of administration in a very negative way. The instructor who has mostly A & B students may be perceived (rightfully or wrongfully) as a "better" teacher and rewarded for those outcomes, even if they are inflated.

Students also pressure instructors to participate in grade inflation. Student perception of unfairness in grading is one of the main reasons they give negative instructor evaluations. A perception of unfairness leads to student anger and students often can't express that anger until they complete their course evaluations. Some students are able to divorce their anger from their evaluations and give constructive criticism of their instructors. Others lash out in anger. It's not pleasant to be on the other side of a negative evaluation.

Once when I was doing clinical evaluations at the end of the term for some students, one student got quite angry at me for the grades I had put. They were graded on a 5-point scale (5 being best, 1 being worst) but of course the scale was a bad tool because two or more scores of 3 meant failure. 3 should have been average and many students deserved average grades in clinical. I gave the student one 3 but was not going to give a second one because she didn't deserve to fail. Most of her scores were 4. She was very upset that they weren't all 5s. She didn't deserve all 5s but I wonder if she had been given high marks in previous clinicals due to grade inflation. (BTW, clinicals were NOT graded. They were pass-fail. I still don't get how two "average" evaluations in clinical should boot someone out of the program!)

It is a good thing that your instructors are doing test-item analysis. Writing test questions is an art and it takes time to learn how to write a good question. Many instructors rely on test banks, which don't always have well-written questions, but that's another discussion, another day. My big concern is, with so many people who would otherwise fail these classes, is everyone learning? Are there problems with the teaching style or the types of evaluation of learning? Were the admission standards too low and students who could not get through the rigors of a nursing program were accepted anyway?

May I ask---do you have a previous degree in education? You seem to be very passionate and articulate about your education. Have you considered a career in nursing education?

[bhanson]

I have a teacher that will throw out questions if we can show her that she was wrong. She does't curve grades because there is no need to. There are only about 20 students in the class and we are pretty much all on the same page. Last week we took a final and she told us that we were going to have about 15-20 new questions on the test from a chapter that we didnt get to go over in class due to weather and power outages...sure enough they were on there. After class we all got together and talked about it and nobody was prepared for it. Dont get me wrong, I did read the chapter and I do understand that whatever is in the book is fair game, but I can't LEARN Chinese unless sombody TEACHES it to me. I made a 73 on the exam but if it wasn't for those questions I calculated that I would have made 93...that's a big difference. We have class tomorrow and I hope she decides to throw out at least a few of them.

I don't think that analogy is accurate. I don't believe you need someone to "teach" you the vast majority of material in nursing school. Some lectures may be helpful and it really depends on the professor and the specific subject, but for the most part I think lecture is a waste of time.

The volume of information we cover is so large that it becomes inefficient to deliver in lecture format. It is in a sense "low-yield" learning where as if you just use the equivalent time to self-study you can cover so much more information.

Here are some quotes from students that subscribe to this:

I never go to lecture unless it's mandatory. My grades have gone up. I learn better and have more time to study and enjoy life when I'm not going to lecture. My school does record the lectures and put them online, so I'll usually listen to them before the exam.

I used to go to EVERY SINGLE LECTURE and I discovered that it was a huge waste of my time. I stopped going. Grades went up. I feel less stressed before tests now. There's no way I'm going back!

The question is does going to class really help?

I can read through my typed lecture notes in 10-15 minutes at a speed that doesn't put me to sleep. I can do this the week before the exam, so I can focus my studies on the upcoming exam, and not all of the other classes at once.

This also allows me to sleep as late as I would like, which improves my morale & productivity.

After the first couple of weeks, I never went to class unless it was mandatory. I feel that going to lecture hurt me because I wasted time getting ready, driving there, etc.

I found it vastly more efficient to listen to the lectures online from the comfort of home...especially once I figured out how to play the online lectures at 1.4 times normal speed. Speeding things up cut down on a lot of the time wasted on unnecessary "ums" and pauses, without hurting retention of necessary info.

All they do is read the powerpoints/notes to us and make corny jokes.

I don't need the jokes typed up for me.

At this point your time is valuable and scarce enough that if sitting in lecture doesn't help you, it doesn't make sense to go.

I'll be skipping lecture; both formats. What's the point if all the material that you need to know is in handouts and slides.

During the first quarter of first year, our attendance was like 80%.. by spring quarter of first year the attendance dropped to about 30%... by the spring quarter of second year, the attendance dropped to 10%.

Our curriculum was pretty much all lecture, and only a few were podcasted and none were videotaped, i guess their way of forcing us to go... It didn't work.... lol. I liked that it was non-mandatory lecture cause I was able to retain my undergrad sleeping habits of going to bed at 4 am and waking up at noon.

Unless your profs drop tons of extra information that's going to be tested during lecture (doubtful for most places) it's a waste of time to watch, listen or attend lecture. It does seem quite a few of my classmates listen to the lecture out of guilt or something, but time is to precious to be guilted into wasting IMO.

time is too precious to waste it in low yield learning settings

Personally, I've noticed that attending lectures is only really worthwhile if you're ahead of the study schedule. If you're ahead, attending lectures is like reviewing the material. If you're not, attending lectures is like hearing an old man ramble semi-coherently for several hours.

Everything you need to know can be summarized nicely into powerpoint slides and syllabus packets. Professors often lecture at a much slower pace that what students can do by themselves so a lot of students do not feel the need to attend the lectures.

Lectures can be helpful if the professor is good, but I do not think attendance is *required* to learn the material. In most cases I think attendance is actually harmful to your education. I unapologetically skip lectures if I do not think it is to my benefit to attend.

[Moogie]

I don't think that analogy is accurate. I don't believe you need someone to "teach" you the vast majority of material in nursing school. Some lectures may be helpful and it really depends on the professor and the specific subject, but for the most part I think lecture is a waste of time.

The volume of information we cover is so large that it becomes inefficient to deliver in lecture format. It is in a sense "low-yield" learning where as if you just use the equivalent time to self-study you can cover so much more information.

Lectures can be helpful if the professor is good, but I do not think attendance is *required* to learn the material. In most cases I think attendance is actually harmful to your education. I unapologetically skip lectures if I do not think it is to my benefit to attend.

There is a whole movement within nursing education to do away with lectures and replace them with active learning approaches. Sometimes lectures are unavoidable, especially if one instructor has to try to teach an entire lecture hall filled with students. And, an excellent lecture by someone who is passionate about a subject and willing to talk about real life clinical experiences rather than just read out of the book or off the PowerPoint, can still be a valuable way to learn.

But you've hit on something here. Students need to be treated as adult learners and be responsible for their own learning. A student can't expect an instructor to spoon feed information---it's far more relevant if the student engages in self-study and other learning activities than if he/she expects the instructor to be the source of all knowledge. This can be difficult. Being an adult learner is a huge responsibility and some students, regardless of age, aren't ready for it. Many teachers aren't willing to let go of the power and take a role as guides in student learning.

This is a very controversial subject. Some students like you are eager to take responsibility for your learning and you will get more from your efforts by doing so. Other students prefer a passive approach and demand lectures. And then, of course, educators are divided as well.

We're drifting away from the original subject just a tad here, bhanson, but it's been an excellent discussion. Thanks for your insights!

[JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP]

I'd like to continue this discussion about lecture, if you don't mind, without derailing this thread. Bhanson, are these quotes from another thread on allnurses? Can you provide a link?

I'm going to be attending grad school soon and as you mentioned, I don't feel that time in lecture is productive for me but I do great learning at my own pace, reading the course material. I often seek out other sources of information in addition to the required material if I feel I need something explained more in depth or in a different way. On the other hand, as Moogie mentioned, I do benefit from hearing anecdotes that instructors share from their actual clinical experience. Unfortunately those discussions can be few and far between, interspersed with the boring PPTs that I can read at home just as well.

Is grad school different as far as lecture is concerned? Or is it more of the same?

[huntash]

i am in my second semester of adn-rn school and we also have grade inflation, or "test analysis" as it's called at our school. this semester we have 7 tests (+ the ati end of semester test) and our tests usually consist of 60 questions and are mostly multiple choice scan-tron type tests. they run the tests through the scanner the first time and you are graded...then the scanner prints out a report of how many students get each question right or wrong. the scan tron sheet itself has no marks on it from the scanner as to which answers are correct or incorrect, which seems a little odd to me. but the report that the teacher gets has all of the student's names and grades and how many people get each question right or wrong. then comes the analysis part....if the majority of the class get a question wrong, then that question is thrown out. when this happens, the questions that were originally worth approximately 1.6 points are then worth more points, depending on how many questions are thrown out....so therefore, the questions that we get right are worth more points, but the questions that we get wrong are also worth more points. our instructors say that this approach only helps the students, as they tell us that we keep the higher of the 2 scores (the one before test analysis or the one after, whichever is the highest), but many of my classmates (including myself) have actually seen our grade drop as a result of this. (in our program, it takes a 75 to pass a test and a 75 to pass the class and this semester our end of the semester ati test is worth 20% of our final grade with no leveling of the grade and none of the grades are rounded at all in our program). our instructor(s) usually end up throwing at least one question out on every test....sometimes 3 or more are thrown out. we really wish that instead of making the remaining questions worth more points that they would make the test worth less total points in that case. it's not the student's fault that some of the questions are worded poorly or could have 2 right (best choice) answers. just wondering if anyone else has this problem in their program???[color=#40e0d0]

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Grade inflation? In nursing school? I wish. At my program, the grade you earn is the grade you receive. At my school, they don't care if you fail or pass. It is really cut throat, sink or swim.

[grownuprosie]

while it is absolutely not the OP's fault, this just frustrates me. All this accomplishes is that the people who go to schools with inflated grades, get into the masters programs with their "A". I, with my B+, am going to get laughed at even though i might know more and be a better student... ironic isn't it? I guess this is the price i pay for going to a school with standards.

[loveoutloud]

wow, I wish that happened at my school. There are usually no A's (max1-2) in classes of 60-120. Even if 60% of the class gets a questions wrong and we ask the teachers about it they scream at us. It is a terrrible program, we cannot so much as ask questions about test/quizzes without the teachers getting defensive.

[anonymousstudent]

We have grade deflation (skewed down grading scale, lowest A is a 93, etc), and in my entire time in the program, every class accounted for, 3 questions have been thrown out.

That doesn't mean my teachers don't write crappy tests. It just means they let them stand. Meh.

[morningdew]

I attend a BSN program and there is no grade inflation where they throw out questions just to get people to pass. What they do is that if you get 2 evidence-based sources(a peer-reviewed journal for example) to back up your choice of answer as the best one then they'll give you the points. They will also throw out a question when only a small minority gets it right. But this has happened rarely and I think it's a very fair way to grade.