Get CNA cert? Before NP?

[Polly Peptide]

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'm starting here. Will let mods move it if necessary.

I will be starting an MSN program this fall, which admits those with degrees in other fields; so I do not have any nursing experience. I do however have about 15 years experience on the business side of healthcare (which includes some population health management and financing), but of course nothing clinical. This is a very reputable program and is well known for graduating prepared NPs (though I'm under no illusions that you really begin learning when you start to practice).

My question is - because I am not an RN, and I will most likely start to practice as an NP without RN experience, would it benefit me to get my CNA certification and then work as a CNA while I am waiting for school to start? Pros, cons, neutral? I understand this is not what I will be doing as an NP, but I wondered if it would provide any skills practice, or even any 'street cred'? Would it help (AT ALL) in the hiring process down the line?

My specialty will be AG-ACNP.

Thanks for your advice.

[Polly Peptide, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

You may think I'm bitter but I assure you that is not the case. The benefit of taking the longer path is getting broad experience and exposure to many different things. I'm well aware of Vanderbuilt's program, it was a program I considered applying to and ultimately did not.

A compressed program doesn't necessarily produce quality graduates. It has taken me well more than a decade to reach the point I am at in my career. But I can assure you that my years of critical care practice as a nurse has only enhanced my advanced practice career. Years of physical assessments, titrating vasoactive medications and seeing their effects, being part of many resuscitations and codes, interacting with all members of the healthcare team, and helping perform thousands of emergent and non-emergent procedures. I don't see how that gets replicated in a truncated timeline and still produce graduates that are able to come out of a program with a strong baseline foundation and ability to practice on an advanced level

I don't think my schooling is going to replace the need for experience as an NP, just as your schooling did not supply all the experience you later obtained. What you said originally was that "these types" of schools churned out NPs that gave the rest of you a bad name, and that's just not the case of every school. I don't believe it's the case with mine.

I am 41. I am not fresh out of undergrad. I am ready to dive in here. I worked for 15 years in the business side of healthcare...that took a lot of diligence, just as you have shown in your career. Yet I am willing to start over for something that matters to me. I am going to Vandy to get the best education I can, and then I will get to work getting all those very important experiences under my belt as I start my practice. I have worked hard all of my life, not taking any short-cuts. I have no doubt your experience was valuable to you. I will work with what I've got and apply myself diligently to the process.

It's just not fair to paint everyone with a broad stroke.

[evolvingrn, BSN, RN]

Wow Ksisemo, you asked a simple and genuine question and we ran you through the ringer. Way to stay cordial and stick with the thread. Best wishes to you, I'm sure you will do great!

[tinyspoons]

Hi ksisemo,

I'm curious what you ended up deciding to do about CNA training. I am right now considering CNA certification myself and plan to apply to a direct entry program later this year (I wish I could get into Vanderbilt, congratulations on that!). My best friend did a second degree ABSN program and has had a successful career. She doesn't see the need for CNA training. Another good friend is a NP, and she was the person who recommended I look into getting CNA certification and trying to work before I start school. So, I'm super confused and not sure what to do as I have no experience in nursing and am not sure how great this will look after graduating. Right now, I'm leaning towards getting the certification, as I don't see how it can really hurt anything.

Thanks!

[tknrosales]

I am in a similar program, and got my RN license a year ago. We are actually required to work as an RN in the program. It will be alot to handle, but i work full time as an RN in the ER on nights, then have school full time including cinicals this semester. I also have 2 kids, 16 yrs and 3 yrs old. So Im sure you can do it

[Polly Peptide, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

Hi ksisemo,

I'm curious what you ended up deciding to do about CNA training. I am right now considering CNA certification myself and plan to apply to a direct entry program later this year (I wish I could get into Vanderbilt, congratulations on that!). My best friend did a second degree ABSN program and has had a successful career. She doesn't see the need for CNA training. Another good friend is a NP, and she was the person who recommended I look into getting CNA certification and trying to work before I start school. So, I'm super confused and not sure what to do as I have no experience in nursing and am not sure how great this will look after graduating. Right now, I'm leaning towards getting the certification, as I don't see how it can really hurt anything.

Thanks!

I am still thinking! I actually can't do it yet anyway so have a little time. The program here is 5 weeks, M-F, and I have a trip scheduled in the middle if I start now. So I have to wait until I return.

For me, I think it would most help me not be totally green in the first part of clinicals during first semester. After that, it may lose its value. However, I am personally chomping at the bit to just start learning, and that is one of my biggest drivers. I am the nerd already reading a pathophys book at home :)

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I am still thinking! I actually can't do it yet anyway so have a little time. The program here is 5 weeks, M-F, and I have a trip scheduled in the middle if I start now. So I have to wait until I return.

For me, I think it would most help me not be totally green in the first part of clinicals during first semester. After that, it may lose its value. However, I am personally chomping at the bit to just start learning, and that is one of my biggest drivers. I am the nerd already reading a pathophys book at home :)

Your first clinical, normally called fundamentals, will assume you are totally green and teach you the very basics from the start. After your first semester you can normally work as a CNA without the course.

[Bumex, DNP, NP]

Your first clinical, normally called fundamentals, will assume you are totally green and teach you the very basics from the start. After your first semester you can normally work as a CNA without the course.

In my state you didn't need the course but you did have to take the cna exam, which my school just wrote a letter stating that we had finished the fundamentals course in order to sit for the exam.

[PintheD]

CNA as your only clinical experience to an advanced nursing degree? Reputable program? Who is going to hire you?

I am afraid for your patients.

Im afraid to get old.

[tinyspoons]

So you'd prefer we get no experience in a medical setting at all and proceed into degree programs? I get that all of you hate direct entry Master's programs, but we're asking how we can get hands on experience. CNA certification seems like a reasonable entry point before we start fundamentals.

Not sure why there's so much hostility about that.

I think this is my second and last post on this site. It's super discouraging and I have plenty of nurses in my life to ask advice from.

Good luck to you, ksisemo!

[BostonFNP, APRN]

CNA as your only clinical experience to an advanced nursing degree? Reputable program? Who is going to hire you?

I am afraid for your patients.

Im afraid to get old.

Some of the best APRNs that I know and some of my best students have had no prior nursing experience. I have also seen terrible ones with no experience.

For better or worse, many APRN employers don't place much weight on the amount of past RN experience, so lots of places will hire him/her with little or no experience.

As far as your personal preference, you are free to see whatever provider you'd like. There is (sadly) a scant amount of research on the role of prior RN experience in novice NP practice. The best of the studies so far, IMHO, is:

Rich, E. R. (2005). Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills?. The Nurse Practitioner, 30(12), 53-56.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

So you'd prefer we get no experience in a medical setting at all and proceed into degree programs? I get that all of you hate direct entry Master's programs, but we're asking how we can get hands on experience. CNA certification seems like a reasonable entry point before we start fundamentals.

Not sure why there's so much hostility about that.

I think this is my second and last post on this site. It's super discouraging and I have plenty of nurses in my life to ask advice from.

Good luck to you, ksisemo!

This is a hot-button topic and you will hear staunch arguments from both sides of the the issue. You need to have a thick skin to make it in this role, and you need t be able to debate a professional issue without becoming personally and emotionally affected by it. Hopefully you will stay involved on the site, you are asking the right questions, you just may not always like all the answers, though they are important in understanding both sides of the issue.

[verene, MSN]

So you'd prefer we get no experience in a medical setting at all and proceed into degree programs? I get that all of you hate direct entry Master's programs, but we're asking how we can get hands on experience. CNA certification seems like a reasonable entry point before we start fundamentals.

Not sure why there's so much hostility about that.

I think this is my second and last post on this site. It's super discouraging and I have plenty of nurses in my life to ask advice from.

Good luck to you, ksisemo!

RN and NP schooling is a very contentious subject currently. There are several different options for becoming an RN and for becoming an NP available right now, each have their pros and cons. Unfortunately I think the abundance of different paths has created some competition as to which is the "right" way to go about doing things. Throw in a mix of the very substandard to the very exceptional training programs through out all levels of schooling and it also builds a lot of tension in the profession. Personally I think you have to take all advice with a grain of salt; do you own research on all the different paths, programs, and combinations thereof; weigh the pros and cons for each option as they apply to you personally and then make the choice that you are willing to commit to.