Help! Done with ASN program since July and still not able to take boards.....

elkpark · Nov 2, 2018

Accreditation can be taken away. Heard rumors of an expensive private college losing theirs due to the small % passing the NCLEX.
Can Schools Lose Accreditation?

I'm aware of that. I guess that may be what that poster meant, that, even if you are attending an accredited school, it could lose its accreditation while you're in school. That's usually a fairly lengthy process, though; schools are given opportunities to fix a problem for quite a while before it gets to the point of a school actually losing accreditation or BON approval and, in my observations over the years, it v. rarely comes down to a school losing accreditation. It would have to be a truly egregious situation. If people go to legitimate schools with decent track records, there v. little chance that would ever be a concern.

TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN · Nov 4, 2018

I'm aware of that. I guess that may be what that poster meant, that, even if you are attending an accredited school, it could lose its accreditation while you're in school. That's usually a fairly lengthy process, though; schools are given opportunities to fix a problem for quite a while before it gets to the point of a school actually losing accreditation or BON approval and, in my observations over the years, it v. rarely comes down to a school losing accreditation. It would have to be a truly egregious situation. If people go to legitimate schools with decent track records, there v. little chance that would ever be a concern.

They actually gain and lose it pretty commonly. What's important is that they're approved by the BON. Accredited is just today's buzz word that everyone obsesses with. They see it ranging from "this school is a scam." all the way to "you can't transfer your RN license to another state," none of it true. All accreditation means to you as a student is that your general education classes will transfer to another school. For RN to BSN it's literally only the difference between MAYBE having to retake micro (because some schools do take transfer credits from unaccredited schools, especially if they're local). To your school, it means they get to stick a logo on their page that makes you think they're a better school. It just means that they've met certain regional and national organizational criteria or that they meet state or national standards to transfer credit for certain classes. When it comes to nursing, all that matters is that your state approves the school, which means that it meets the BON's standards.

Forget accreditation. It's meaningless unless you plan on going after higher degrees. Focus on that individual school's reputation, both from former graduates, and from the places they do their clinicals. Sometimes the expensive accredited university is better, but sometimes the small diploma program at an unaccredited school is better. It's all up to the program and the people teaching it.

elkpark · Nov 4, 2018

They actually gain and lose it pretty commonly. What's important is that they're approved by the BON. Accredited is just today's buzz word that everyone obsesses with. They see it ranging from "this school is a scam." all the way to "you can't transfer your RN license to another state," none of it true. All accreditation means to you as a student is that your general education classes will transfer to another school. For RN to BSN it's literally only the difference between MAYBE having to retake micro (because some schools do take transfer credits from unaccredited schools, especially if they're local). To your school, it means they get to stick a logo on their page that makes you think they're a better school. It just means that they've met certain regional and national organizational criteria or that they meet state or national standards to transfer credit for certain classes. When it comes to nursing, all that matters is that your state approves the school, which means that it meets the BON's standards.
Forget accreditation. It's meaningless unless you plan on going after higher degrees. Focus on that individual school's reputation, both from former graduates, and from the places they do their clinicals. Sometimes the expensive accredited university is better, but sometimes the small diploma program at an unaccredited school is better. It's all up to the program and the people teaching it.

Define "pretty commonly." I've been in nursing, and nursing education, for decades now, and have only heard of a few situations in the communities in which I've practiced over the years of a school being at risk of losing its accreditation. And in all the cases I've heard of, the school ended correcting whatever problems there were during the probation phase of the process, and did not end up actually losing accreditation. Where are all these schools that are losing their accreditation so "commonly"?

And accreditation is certainly not "meaningless unless you plan on going after higher degrees." Many healthcare employers, inc. many of the most desirable healthcare employers, will only hire graduates of (CCNE or ACEN) accredited programs. The entire US military, the entire VA system, most (all?) academic medical centers, many other hospitals and medical centers. Can you have a long and full nursing career without attending an accredited program? Sure. But you're closing off a lot of career opportunities and possibilities before you even get started. Nowadays, I can't see any justification for attending a school that doesn't have both regional academic accreditation and nursing-specific accreditation.

TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN · Nov 5, 2018

The NCLEX is the NCLEX regardless of what school you went to. An RN is still an RN. Yeah, sometimes school matters, in competitive job markets, but then in those markets, so does how far you live from the job, what kind of car you have, whether or not you have kids... How are all these graduates of these programs getting great jobs? You'd think there would be way more of them struggling to find good jobs as a nurse.

Accreditation is based on organizations. An accredited is the same thing as an ASE certified mechanic. No matter who does it, you change your brakes the same way, and it's always one of the first things taught to people who want to be mechanics. That kid who's learning to fix cars in exchange for sweeping the shop is 100% as qualified as that certified mechanic to fix your brakes, and probably did fix your brakes. But we've created an illusion that the certified mechanic is somehow going to be magically better at a routine brake job. It's actually so much of an illusion that 9/10 of your brake jobs were done by a mechanic who is not certified in brakes. But that little logo on the wall of the shop makes you feel warm inside.

That's what we're doing with colleges and accreditation. All that means is that the school self-governs themselves to meet another organization's standards. It means that a company endorses the school. As a student, the only aspect of accreditation that matters is transferring credits, and that's solely because every accrediting body has different standards from each other. All a CCNE accreditation means is "we follow AACN's standards of education." That's it. That's all that means. And the main goal of accreditation is so that schools in Hawaii have the same standards as a school in Florida. It's what basically guarantees that your credits from Hawaii will transfer to a school in Florida. BUT, if you've ever REALLY look at bridge and graduate programs, they typically couldn't care less what school you went to, as long as you're licensed and can hit that schools standards, which mainly limits the transfer issue to your non-nursing courses.

The main focus of any nursing student should be if the BON approves that school to test. That means that the school meets the states board of nursing standards on nursing education.

Accreditation as a student is all about transferring credits. It doesn't matter if you're going for art or medicine, accreditation from your perspective is for the same exact thing.

Also, accreditation doesn't just come overnight. You don't just open a school and you're accredited. It takes time, one of the main requirements is operating for a certain number of years before applying to be accredited.

Watch Tommy Boy, and pay attention to when he's selling the brake pads late in the movie, and what he says about the warranty on the competitor's box. That's exactly what you're treating the accreditation like.

LovingLife123 · Nov 5, 2018

The NCLEX is the NCLEX regardless of what school you went to. An RN is still an RN. Yeah, sometimes school matters, in competitive job markets, but then in those markets, so does how far you live from the job, what kind of car you have, whether or not you have kids... How are all these graduates of these programs getting great jobs? You'd think there would be way more of them struggling to find good jobs as a nurse.
Accreditation is based on organizations. An accredited is the same thing as an ASE certified mechanic. No matter who does it, you change your brakes the same way, and it's always one of the first things taught to people who want to be mechanics. That kid who's learning to fix cars in exchange for sweeping the shop is 100% as qualified as that certified mechanic to fix your brakes, and probably did fix your brakes. But we've created an illusion that the certified mechanic is somehow going to be magically better at a routine brake job. It's actually so much of an illusion that 9/10 of your brake jobs were done by a mechanic who is not certified in brakes. But that little logo on the wall of the shop makes you feel warm inside.
That's what we're doing with colleges and accreditation. All that means is that the school self-governs themselves to meet another organization's standards. It means that a company endorses the school. As a student, the only aspect of accreditation that matters is transferring credits, and that's solely because every accrediting body has different standards from each other. All a CCNE accreditation means is "we follow AACN's standards of education." That's it. That's all that means. And the main goal of accreditation is so that schools in Hawaii have the same standards as a school in Florida. It's what basically guarantees that your credits from Hawaii will transfer to a school in Florida. BUT, if you've ever REALLY look at bridge and graduate programs, they typically couldn't care less what school you went to, as long as you're licensed and can hit that schools standards, which mainly limits the transfer issue to your non-nursing courses.
The main focus of any nursing student should be if the BON approves that school to test. That means that the school meets the states board of nursing standards on nursing education.
Accreditation as a student is all about transferring credits. It doesn't matter if you're going for art or medicine, accreditation from your perspective is for the same exact thing.
Also, accreditation doesn't just come overnight. You don't just open a school and you're accredited. It takes time, one of the main requirements is operating for a certain number of years before applying to be accredited.
Watch Tommy Boy, and pay attention to when he's selling the brake pads late in the movie, and what he says about the warranty on the competitor's box. That's exactly what you're treating the accreditation like.

You are so wrong and clearly don't understand accreditation. Every job posting in my area states that you need to have graduated from an ACEN accredited school. You also need regional accreditation to transfer credits.

Do not come on this site and tell students that accreditation is meaningless and all you need to do is to be able to sit for NCLEX.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2018

I.would first write some letters myself to the Dean, the BON, state department of education.

If no results, I would get a lawyer.

And yes, its best to pass over non accredited schools.

K9lover, ASN, RN · Nov 10, 2018

Those sleazy non-accredited schools popped up all over post 2008 recession it seems. My daughter has 30K debt for a medical assistant diploma without hands-on or cert. I tried to get her to go to community college but she she sold hook, line and sinker.

They then attempted to keep it going with an associates' degree of non-transferable units as an M.A., on that she listened to me and quit while she was behind not having found a job as an M.A...she will be in debt forever *sigh*

Luchador, CNA, EMT-B · Nov 10, 2018

Those sleazy non-accredited schools popped up all over post 2008 recession it seems. My daughter has 30K debt for a medical assistant diploma without hands-on or cert. I tried to get her to go to community college but she she sold hook, line and sinker.
They then attempted to keep it going with an associates' degree of non-transferable units as an M.A., on that she listened to me and quit while she was behind not having found a job as an M.A...she will be in debt forever *sigh*

30k for medical assistant diploma? Holy f-&*%#@! S^&%

TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN · Nov 11, 2018

You are so wrong and clearly don't understand accreditation. Every job posting in my area states that you need to have graduated from an ACEN accredited school. You also need regional accreditation to transfer credits.
Do not come on this site and tell students that accreditation is meaningless and all you need to do is to be able to sit for NCLEX.

So everyone who graduated from a nonaccredited school will never work in a hospital? Say that out loud and realize how stupid it sounds.

Yeah, maybe your new graduate job will be hard to find, but that's only because everyone on these boards absolutely has to be a nurse, and they absolutely have to work med surg at a the cool hospital, or else they'll never be able to have a job in nursing. It's also important to note how many of these also require that education to be in the state that the hospital is in. So, they never hire someone who moved there from out of state? They never hire travelers?

Accreditation is a standard set by independent companies. All it means is that your education in California is the same as your education in Delaware. Nonaccredited schools aren't automatically worse. Some of them are new. Community colleges commonly don't pursue accreditation. Where are all these graduates working? Is there this massive pool of licensed RNs who aren't finding work because they didn't graduate from the right school? Worst case, find one of the countless RN-BSN programs that accept transfers from non-accredited schools and just get the BSN and problem solved. But it's not going to get to that point.

No matter what school you graduated from, if you can't get a job, it's your problem, not your schools. Use your cover letter, make your resume outline your verifiable skills, get recommendation letters from your teachers, network with the nurses in your clinicals and get recommendations from them or do a good job and just get hired there. This is all stuff you should be doing anyway, even if you're going through the most respected school in the country. Anyone can get through school, but not everyone has the personal skills that you need in the working world. 10 out of 10 places that "require" education from an accredited school will overlook it if you're better than the average applicant. And experience means way more than whether or not your school gets to put a logo on their page. Learn how to market yourself, and that requirement is meaningless. YOU need to get your jobs, not your degree.

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · Nov 11, 2018

So everyone who graduated from a nonaccredited school will never work in a hospital? Say that out loud and realize how stupid it sounds.
Yeah, maybe your new graduate job will be hard to find, but that's only because everyone on these boards absolutely has to be a nurse, and they absolutely have to work med surg at a the cool hospital, or else they'll never be able to have a job in nursing. It's also important to note how many of these also require that education to be in the state that the hospital is in. So, they never hire someone who moved there from out of state? They never hire travelers?
Accreditation is a standard set by independent companies. All it means is that your education in California is the same as your education in Delaware. Nonaccredited schools aren't automatically worse. Some of them are new. Community colleges commonly don't pursue accreditation. Where are all these graduates working? Is there this massive pool of licensed RNs who aren't finding work because they didn't graduate from the right school? Worst case, find one of the countless RN-BSN programs that accept transfers from non-accredited schools and just get the BSN and problem solved. But it's not going to get to that point.
No matter what school you graduated from, if you can't get a job, it's your problem, not your schools. Use your cover letter, make your resume outline your verifiable skills, get recommendation letters from your teachers, network with the nurses in your clinicals and get recommendations from them or do a good job and just get hired there. This is all stuff you should be doing anyway, even if you're going through the most respected school in the country. Anyone can get through school, but not everyone has the personal skills that you need in the working world. 10 out of 10 places that "require" education from an accredited school will overlook it if you're better than the average applicant. And experience means way more than whether or not your school gets to put a logo on their page. Learn how to market yourself, and that requirement is meaningless. YOU need to get your jobs, not your degree.

Sometimes it's the applicant- but some healthcare systems have been burned by low-quality grads of sketchy programs and decline to ever hire another one of their grads. Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant. And 10/10 places that require an accredited program REQUIRE AN ACCREDITED PROGRAM.

Just repeating your ill-informed opinion does not make it fact.

Medic/Nurse, BSN, RN · Nov 12, 2018

At this point, by not authorizing NCLEX (which it can be presumed you would be successful based on prior performance) the school is compromising your ability to EARN NURSING DOLLARS.

I'd send them a CERTIFIED letter outlining the course of the last 5 months - key dates, prior requests to resolve (check your cell bill detail) and give them 10 business days to remedy or face recourse.

I'd check all my papers to be clear on the school's responsibilities (it may not say specifically NCLEX release, but could interpret no valid reason to delay). This could impact contract law or not - just know everything.

As for RECOURSE - go public (media) or not. I'd think about small claims court in my state (you represent yourself & it usually has a fast docket) on breech of contract and seek max allowable amount for damages (tho your actual expenses may be low, the school's attitude of "crap on you" fraud shady-as-hell factor is a biggie with damage).

I had my degree completed in December, degree was conferred on (I think the dates are right, I know April 9 licensure date is) February 22 (or there about) started as a graduate nurse in the ER on March 21 (I think) and passed NCLEX on April 9. So I was making NURSE DOLLARS within 4 weeks or so.

Yeah, you are potentially losing big.

Or go talk to a lawyer (I might even find one that does nurse defense, just because they understand nursing) and see if one is willing to take on this case. I'd bet there are takers!

:angel:

Psychnursehopeful, ASN, RN · Nov 12, 2018

What's the name of this "school"?