Curious what your school would do? - page 4
Ok, I am an RN and I work on a med surg floor. I onnly graduated 6 months ago and I know I would have had an automatic clinical failure for what I am about to explain happened at my work the other... Read More
Dec 10, '06Occupation: Adolescent psych Specialty: Adolescent Psych, PICU ; Joined: Feb '03; Posts: 2,164; Likes: 384LOL I can only imagine that the CC vs BSN poster has never set foot in a hospital or worked with real RN's, most of whom are CC grads! I'm in a BSN program myself, I would have been happy to have been accepted anywhere because of how competitive it is to get into. I was just thankful to have a spot somewhere ya know? Also my BSN program has one of the better NCLEX pass rates in the area. But NCLEX pass rate doesn't mean anything if they flunk half the students just to get a good pass rates (lots of schools do that), the schools NCLEX AND retention rate are both important IMO.
Dec 10, '06Occupation: Pediatric Nurse Practitioner & Nursing Instructor Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in Pediatrics ; Joined: Oct '03; Posts: 359; Likes: 528What about the comments for the OP? I'm fine with you guys wanting to debate CC vs university, but this post is not the place. Open a new thread and put it there. Half of these comments don't even remark on the OP. Can we try to stay on track?
Dec 10, '06Occupation: OB RN Specialty: OB ; Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 728; Likes: 133Quote from asoldierswife05I was in a pt room and the pts wife made a sniff turn up her nose sound at me when I explained that I was an ADN student from a CC near by. this hospital that I do rotations at also has BSN students at it. My primary was in the room at the same time and she looked this woman in the eye and said very quietly, but with force " Well, from what I have seen these CC students run circles around the BSN students,they are further ahead acedemically, and they are taking 3-4 pts while the university students cant seem to handle more than 2." it was a good moment!!!!!!The only substandard nursing student is the one with a generalized, biased, assuming, and judgemental attitude towards others who obtain their degree in a different manner. I'm sick of the BSN is the best attitude really. Can we please move on?
As far as healinghands stating the low GPA requirements, I am sure they are there, yes, but with the amt of students that apply, I would highly doubt that anyone with a 2.0 would get in.. the selection process does look at GPA, "even" at a CC level
Dec 10, '06Specialty: ICU/PCU ; Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 487; Likes: 119Quote from scribblerrnIf you look closely at the replies on this thread, MOST of them DO comment directly on the OP's question.What about the comments for the OP? I'm fine with you guys wanting to debate CC vs university, but this post is not the place. Open a new thread and put it there. Half of these comments don't even remark on the OP. Can we try to stay on track?
We are trying our best to respond also to healinghands comments, who by her OWN admission has been a "D student as well as an A student" in a previous thread.
[HealingHands327QUOTE!]I've been both an A student and a D student, and the amount of knowledge between the two is profound.:trout:[HealingHands327/ENDQUOTE]
Once again, I will respond to the original poster's question. This error was made and should be dealt with by her clinical instructor. Whether or not we are allowed as 3rd or 4th semester students to pass meds with or without our CI is irrelevent. THIS student was NOT chosen to pass meds that particular day, and did so erroniously on many levels. She didn't pull the meds herself, and didn't have the permission from either the CI or the RN taking care of the pt. to pass the meds. That, coupled with the fact that she then lied to her CI about the circumstances make her errors even more egregious, IMO. Any student in my CC RN program would have serious repercussions!
Dec 10, '06Occupation: Critical Care nurse Specialty: ICU/CCU/MICU/SICU/CTICU ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 1,046; Likes: 69Ok, guys and girls.....
This thread was started asking what other NURSING PROGRAMS would have done in this situation. It did not venture into community college vs universities. This is not a debate of which degree is better.... there are many threads already here that cover the thoughts on that.
Please play nice.Last edit by CardioTrans on Dec 10, '06 : Reason: wording
Dec 11, '06Occupation: Ob-Gyn surgical assist/office nurse Specialty: 9 year(s) of experience in Surgery, Ob/Gyn ; From: TX, US ; Joined: Dec '05; Posts: 104; Likes: 3to answer the op's question, my program would have at least given you and F day, as per policy. 2 F day's and you fail the class. 5 F days during your entire enrollment in the program and you flunk out.
I'm unsure if they would have taken further action against this or not.
I only received one F day my entire time, and that was for overlooking an antibiotic to be hung. The nurse didn't tell my instructor either. My instructor wasn't upset or mad at me, as we both overlooked it that day.
Dec 11, '06Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 5WOW...a D student?? I'm in a CC program and we have a 3-D your out policy...
Some students can make straight A's and then make major mistakes on the floor...I've seen that myself
In our program the student would have gotten in to major trouble.
Dec 11, '06Joined: Dec '04; Posts: 1,144; Likes: 137At my CC that would be an IMMEDIATE failure....one of which would grant you an immediate trip to meet the program director. Yikes!!!
On a side note....yes my CC says the requirement for admission is a 2.5.....but you will never get in with that. My class was 3.7 and up. Honestly I dont know why they dont raise it...NO ONE HAS A CHANCE with a 2.5
Dec 11, '06Occupation: SICU Nurse Joined: May '06; Posts: 120; Likes: 17Just have to add my 2 cents worth on this topic...passing meds without the clinical instructor or primary nurse present is a definite no-no in my Community College ADN program. You would receive at the very least an unsatisfactory for the day --2 "U"'s and you are dismissed from the program. As for the lying to CYA--that would result in immediate dismissal from the program (seen as academic dishonesty - and gross negligence).
As far as the CC vs University debate-- I have to agree with most of the posters here. Community College does not mean poor quality. My state recently underwent a statewide articulation of all (CC and University) In other words we all have the same curriculum -- we all have to meet the same requirements to graduate. We all have to pass the same NCLEX.
I can tell you for certain that all of the programs in my state are highly competitive and choose quality students.. most if not all have a GPA requirement of at least 3.6.
And as far as my Community College goes ...our grading standard is higher than general academic courses....93 or above =A and anything below a 76 is a big ol' F A T Hairy "F" (prereq's included)...So I guess with the grading curve we would actually have higher GPA's if we (nursing students) were graded on the same scale as all the other students.
But what do I know... I attend a Community College.
Dec 11, '06Occupation: employed student nurse Joined: Jan '04; Posts: 73; Likes: 1Wow. That was not cool. The student should have known not to hand the meds out. Even if she was allowed to hand them out, we were taught that we never, under any circumstances, hand out meds that have been poured by someone else.
Dec 11, '06Occupation: RN Specialty: Med/Surg ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 690; Likes: 111My program would definately have failed her out for the semester and probably the rest of the program. We can get 3 U's a semester before we fail. However, if it is a safety issue as this one was it would have been an automatic failure for the semester and the fact she lied would have gotten her thrown out of the program. Never lie, never pass meds someone else opened or drew up. Now the nurse was wrong opening up the meds before going into the pts room and leaving them in the closet. That would be a huge nono where I work and we are also taught in school never open the pills before hand...what if the pt refuses to take a particular one how would you know which one it was?
Now to address healinghands comments....I graduated from a CC. Guess I would have been a "substandard" student when I started since my GPA was only a 2.65, However, by the time I graduated 5 semesters later...I had a 3.75 GPA. There was a girl in my class who started with a 4.0...graduated with a 4.0....can't pass the NCLEX to save her life...hmmm just because you are book smart does not make you a good nurse or mean you are capable of being a nurse.
Dec 11, '06Joined: Nov '05; Posts: 2,781; Likes: 1,932I'm not in a program yet (I'm applying this winter....finally!)...but just from my CNA training, I can't imagine why this student would think this was an appropriate action. With her being so close to graduation....I'd say there were big concerns there. That doesn't even touch the bigger issue of lying to her instructor about the situation.
As far as what Healing Hands is writing....it seems that you are making global claims, based on very local data. You should make local claims or increase your scope of information. Your deduction was not logical, it was narrow minded. It is not logical to assume that admissions nationwide are in anyway similar to the 4 or so local programs you mentioned.
FWIW, the CC program I'm trying to get into is actually in a consortium with the state university. This means they have exactly the same admissions policies and they have exactly the same curriculum. The program is designed for me to attend the CC for the first three years and then for the forth year, I physically attend the CC, but am taking classes from and paying tuition to the state university.
Oh and btw, I'm applying this winter to the program. My GPA will be over 4.0 (don't know how much yet, grades come out next week) and there's a very good chance that I won't get in this time around. For my school, you need a 4.0 and you need to have your pre-reqs finished before applying.....it's that competitive.
Dec 11, '06Occupation: pulling patients back from The Light Specialty: pulling patients back from The Light ; From: US ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 10,813; Likes: 25,305Hi, Colleenurse! I'm also out of school six months, and I can just imagine how it would have gone down in my school's program. I can't swear that the student would be out because of having passed the meds without an instructor (or the nurse herself) because I believe that would be an infraction, a write-up, whatever, but not dismissal (not in third semester, anyway). The greater concern, IMO, was the ethics violations: she knew she was NOT to pass meds, she knew the nurse WOULD pass the meds, she knew she had NO permission or authority to pass them herself (and clearly no knowledge of WHAT she was to pass, where was the MAR??). And, beyond all that, she tried to cover up her exceedingly poor judgment and frankly, devious behavior (remember, she KNEW she had no permission here). She tried to cover this up with lies and, further, leveled her own accusations falsely against the nurse. Ethics issues all.
Based on the ethics violations, I'd oust her. We had an ethics issue in my program as well, different scenario, but still a cover-up that went bad. Fourth semester, weeks from graduation, and the student was out, period.