Would you do this so others could get vacation... - page 3
We have a large unit, over 80 nurses. Our unit want us to all pick up 8 hours a month so that the very low seniour people can get vacation. My beef is I have worked there for 18 years and why... Read More
Feb 22, '04Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,763; Likes: 16,343Quote from BittyBabyGrowerWe do have PRN's, no agency. But, our PRN get to pick and choose their time, not fill in when we need them. That is a whole other thread!
as it SHOULD BE. Why should we work when YOU say we should? We get no bennies as PRN staff. SOOoo we work when we can/want to. It's totally fair. But you are right. It IS another thread. If you are unhappy, go PRN yourself.
Feb 22, '04Occupation: Nurse of course! Specialty: NICU, PICU, educator ; From: US ; Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 1,838; Likes: 1,115Our PRNs pick there schedule after out schedule is out, so then that doesn't help us at all if we are really short one day and way overstaffed in another...don't get your panties in a twist like you do sometimes. Dont ASSUME that someone can just go PRN.
I fully agree that it shouldn't be mandatory, I wouldn't mind picking up hours here and there if I can. My DH takes call and works 5/week, so it isn't easy to find someone to watch the kids.
Thanks for the thoughts guysLast edit by BittyBabyGrower on Feb 27, '04
Feb 22, '04Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,763; Likes: 16,343No twisting here, and thank you , but you do not know me enough to know I was getting upset.....(I was not). I do think, however too many people expect a bit too much of PRN workers at times. WE are NOT saviors, but we do fill holes. We work when we want, for a reason and have made certain sacrifices in the process. There are TWO sides to every story, after all.
It sounds as if where you work,PRNs are picking their schedule AFTER YOU PICK/RECEIVE YOURS. Sound as if all is fair here. As to whether it helps you personally, or not, well another story. But don't get upset if PRNs work when they want and it does not suit you -----------
they get last pick after all, like they should. FTE come first in the dibs for scheduling. PRN DO fill holes, so they ARE helping. IF it's not enough, perhaps it is because your unit does not employ ENOUGH OF THEM.
You are benefitted. Along with that, goes the burden of having to work more than I do. But you are compensated for this, as well in being benefitted.
The way I see it, it's fair all around. Too many places try to mandate PRN work and then wonder why PRN staff don't sign up. Make it attractive, and they will come. I know, I have been PRN for 4 years now and could not be happier.
Have a good day now.Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Feb 22, '04
Feb 23, '04Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 255; Likes: 14Ours is set up like this; summer months; June July August (12-14 weeks). two people per day can request off giving 24-28 alloted vacation requests... 40 staff nurses. At least 12 staff RN's will NOT get a vacation this summer. May is already booked, yes by those who WILL get time off during the summer months, as ours gos by seniority. I'm not a new nurse, just new to this unit, so my question would be; "Why should I stay if I'm 12 of 12 on the bottom of the seniority list being turned down for vacation?
I have been a senior staff member and "paid my dues", in a place that ensured EVERYONE had one week of vacation, my new "home" is different.
So 12 of 12, I'm sure this is similar to your unit with the newer folk. What are you doing for retention? Why would new staff stay, collect a bank of time off, only to not be able to take time off with their kids and family? In this nursing shortage, and my experience, I can go ANYWHERE, so can your peers.
what can the staff, especially senior staff who have built your unit do, to correct this and why can't this problem be given to the staff instead of dictated by management? Surely with 80 nurses, you all can resolve this by working together to ensure that everyone can have a week off.
Plus, unless everyone is salary, until Bush changes this legislation about OT (a whole other thread), any hours over 40 is OT paid. period.
I have worked extra through the summer months for the past nine years to fill in "holes" because of vacations. The vacations were granted period, leaving one whole per shift, and the unit worked together to ensure that staffing was safe. It may sound over simplified, but it was simply, that simple.
Feb 23, '04Occupation: registered nuse Joined: Apr '03; Posts: 3,118; Likes: 840I have reread this thread and it still is not clear to me how a staff nurse can be mandated for 8 extra hours of work and not be paid overtime. As I stated in my earlier post, most facilities are saying 1 week's vacation after 6 months of work. That seems reasonable to me. If I had small children, I would maybe try for a long weekend or a couple of extra days off during the week so we could go somewhere as a family. I would expect to work a couple of extra shifts to "pay back" this time. I would not like to mandated wo any input in the situation. I really think this is a labor issue and one that needs to be clairified with the labor board in that state. I would think a release of some kind would have to be signed to forgo overtime. I think the idea of asking staff to sign for extra days at extra pay is one we have all worked with. I think PRN staff is exactly that, PRN. We have some PRN's who could and would come in on short notice, others had their schedule planned around other jobs or home issues. I was just thankful there were there when they could be, I did not expect them to cover for every unit emergency or need.
This facility is doing something underhanded and the employee's are just too used to "taking orders" to get to the bottom of this problem.
Feb 23, '04Occupation: new grad Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 2,637; Likes: 18It would completely SUCK not to get a vacation. While i think it is unfair to more senior nurses to have to pick up extra shifts, I think EVERYONE diserves their vacation. Like someone else said, if only the senior nurses are allowed summer vacation, then pretty soon you will have NO nurses left.
Feb 23, '04Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 38,763; Likes: 16,343Quote from nekhismomI agree completely!It would completely SUCK not to get a vacation. While i think it is unfair to more senior nurses to have to pick up extra shifts, I think EVERYONE diserves their vacation. Like someone else said, if only the senior nurses are allowed summer vacation, then pretty soon you will have NO nurses left.
Feb 23, '04Occupation: RN, outpt onc/hem unit Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 1,233; Likes: 8Quote from barefootladyDidn't she say only the part-time employees have to do this? ( post #6 in this thread) If so, there's no overtime involved.I have reread this thread and it still is not clear to me how a staff nurse can be mandated for 8 extra hours of work and not be paid overtime. .Last edit by jemb on Feb 23, '04
Feb 23, '04Occupation: L.P.N. in LTC Specialty: med surg,homecare,hospice ; Joined: Aug '00; Posts: 4,682; Likes: 4,825The last time I checked the calender there was more then 12 to 14 weeks in a year.Everyone gets to take there vacation time-no one is saying they are not getting time off......Everyone does not always get their first choice or get the height of summer ......With the staffing shortage we can go anywhere but then you'll always be new and have no seniority...I don't understand how a newbie even would have the nerve to request 2 weeks in the summer-or how anyone would for example expect the same week in July every year...I don't care how big your institution is-you have to have coverage....If you consider your co-workers and try to build co-operative relationships with them you should be able to trade around time-we don't have any problem with that.No one has to work over time or a ridiculous number of days in a row..
Feb 23, '04Occupation: RN Joined: May '01; Posts: 51; Likes: 3I think what she was saying that there are only 12-14 weeks for summer vacation and yes there are more times to take off but not if you have children in school. That is there vacation too, can't take them out of school, well yes, but then you have the school to deal with. When I worked in the hospital everyone was given 3 choices, hospital seniority ruled over floor seniority for vacations....Usually everyone got off, may not have been their 1st or 2nd but you did get a vacation. People were then asked to work overtime to make sure shifts were covered and then everyone got a vacation....most people were willing to help, they wanted their vacation too....never mandated... I was seniority but I still felt EVERYONE deserved a vacation.....
Feb 23, '04Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 574; Likes: 74Thank god I work for a magnet hospital! Nope, there's no way that I would step outside my agreement with the manager about my designated hr/wk. I'm currently a 0.8 -- I would NEVER work above a 0.8 b/cs management or the floor has staffing issues. This just means that they NEED TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE. Period.
Feb 24, '04Occupation: new grad Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 2,637; Likes: 18I also work at a magnet hospital. Our vacations are granted based on seniority. THe vacation policy sucks and staffing is SHORT, SHORT, SHORT!!! We have signs everywhere saying you can't trade shifts with others, you can't get a PRN to cover your shift if you want a day off and don't have PTO, you can't take any unpaid time off, etc. There are about 10 newbies already and about 20 more are expected come may.
Basically, I don't think magnet status is the solution to short staffing that people think it is. We still have very little autonomy and our vacation policy stinks.
Feb 24, '04Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 60,448; Likes: 16,865I work at a magnet hospital, and sometimes we have to work extra to help give a coworker a vacation, but not often. As I said before, it's just a nice thing to do for someone, but it definately isn't mandated, you are asked. Luckily here in Florida people are taking vacations at all times of the year, winter and summer. In fact I skip the summer and take a fall and spring vacation.
I'm not so sure seniority is the right way to go, but I don't have a better solution. If there isn't much turnover, or the unit is small the the low person on the totem poll will always be low. My spouse works in administration in a small department, and a couple of people who have been there for empteen years tried to pick a perfect schedule for themselves, and dump a horrible schedule of leftover days on him. A year later he asserted himself and they did a fair and equal schedule rather than one based on seniority as no one was going anywhere. They work out their vacations amongst themselves and work extra when one of them is gone.
But that's off topic as the original poster stated the unit was very large.