What Are the Chances of Getting Paid Overtime in a SNF?

Nurses General Nursing

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I'm not sure if it happens elsewhere, but during my orientation, I was told by the staff that the company barely gives OT pay to employees. Our unit can house 39 residents at one time, 38 the most I got so far, 32 on average. After passing meds, you get phone calls in between, PRN from residents, all with different kinds of personalities, families that needed to hear from you, 5 CNAs to help in the AM, 3 on evening shift and 2 for NOCs. And when you're done, do charting of 18-20 patient average (lucky if you get less than 18). I barely even have time to go to lunch since when I worked PMs, there would only be 2 licensed staff (myself and the staff on the other station), and on AM shift, the workload is just too much and the supervisor often goes to meetings so nobody can actually cover for me. That has been going on for 8 months. The first time I ever requested for OT was when I had 37 residents, and the Administrator asked me why I am requesting OT pay I said "high census, more workload" and she rolled her eyes, embarassed me in front of a new employee, chuckled and answered "Of course i know what high census means!" So i enumerated all the instances I could use to justify my OT "request." I bet she has never worked as a nurse, and while I want to give quality care to all of my patients, I feel the need to be compensated for what I do. I don't think I am being inefficient. I make sure I never waste a second. I barely even talk to other employees unless truly necessary for the job, only because I believe that it would use up my time little by little and will eventually make me end up late. They always tell me that I am doing a great job, and they have even asked me if I am up for some leadership roles (which I really want), just goes to show that I am on the right track.

Now I have several concerns on this.

1. At what instances can we actually be paid OT?

2. If I don't punch out for lunch (because I didnt have a chance to go on break), it gets automatically 'edited' to show that I did take a break, and so I dont get paid extra 30 minutes for that.

3. It is only when I'm done with med pass that I get a chance to do my charting. Would that qualify for OT or not?

4. Because I am the only RN on the floor at any given shift (the DON does not help), I would be asked to give IV meds, hang IV fluids and TPNs to residents on the other side. I do it openly because I know they depend on me and I never complained about that. Just got me to think now if I can use that as a reason to 'request' OT or if it is actually legal

5. We do not get a chance to check our time record, but when paycheck comes the hours are perfectly tallied. We don't get OT pay unless we show written evidence that it was 'authorized' by the DON or supervisor

6. During in-service we are asked to sign an attendance sheet, and i didn't know that I was supposed to sign an OT request for each and every in-service meeting I attended to. (doesn't the attendance sheet that purpose?)

and last but not the least, #7: how many residents can a charge nurse legally have in a skilled nursing facility setting?

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There are a lot of employers who will not pay OT without the prior authorization of the appropriate supervisor. Unless you want to take the matter up with your Labor Board with the possibility of bringing about your exit from the job, you have to be aware of this and insure you don't incur unauthorized OT.

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Specializes in trauma, ortho, burns, plastic surgery.

First I would like to tell you that NO OVER TIME, really means NO OVER TIME. I will explain you why to be able to understand. All facilities all private ones, is like in my own home , my house is MY PRIVATE HOME. Well if you come at my door and i told you, take off your shoes, because "IS NOT ALLOW" with shoes in my house , you need to do it or you can choose to not enter, is MY house rule.

In your house you do your rules, in my house I do it!

Now depend of your attitude... if you come to me and tell me... I could not take off the shoes TODAY, because I have a bandage in, and i see that all others days you respect my house rules is ok, but if all the time you try to trick me somehow, or if you still have your bubu that keep you with your shoes on in...is BAD, your attitude is bad, or you have a bubu and you need to be treated befire to enter in MY house!

Much more....you could not say to me in my house that MY floor is cold, is rude and disrespectfull....... because I already know that....... for this reason your administrator replay to you, she already knew that, you don't argue with her.

"I bet she has never worked as a nurse"... you choosed totally wrong the words.... probably because you are frustated.... NEVER BUT NEVER to use these words with no one... from here to many other problems is just one step. You are young, nursing life is not like in book or in Zuzi dreaming posts, nursing life is harsh, bad, a lot of compromises, but is WOANDERFULL and YOU could make a difference if you had a good attitude and when you will hear "no overtime" is "no overtime", don't argue, don't overreact, don't find explanations...ARE NOT, is a private world.

"They always tell me that I am doing a great job, and they have even asked me if I am up for some leadership roles (which I really want), just goes to show that I am on the right track. "....... now I really don't understand where is your problem..is a contradiction here....

1. OT is paid by facilty policy, if they don't allow over time ... means that is NOT ALLOWED.

2. Is your right to take lunch breack...take it! WRONG WORDS, for a leader "I don't have time to go to lunch"... you have time, no one will die until you will come back, take your luch break.

3. Forget about OT, is not allowed means that need to manage your time wise!

4. WRONG AGAIN, DON is not there to help you passing meds or doing charting, you need to manage your time wise and find a solution... at soon the ideea to find a solution to have OT will go out of your mind, you will find a solution TO NOT HAVE OT!

5. "We do not get a chance to check our time record, but when paycheck comes the hours are perfectly tallied. We don't get OT pay unless we show written evidence that it was 'authorized' by the DON or supervisor.

Wrong incriminatory statement here...if you really belive in it, find a lawyer....personally I am very carefully to work with anyone with this attitude..I am so sorry

6. Inservices are paid point is not about OT here.

7. How many residents you take care on they told you when you was hired and you said YES?????

I hope that I clarified a little OT issue, you will be a great nurse and a great lider... just focus on somenthing else, instead of "how to have OT" to "how to NOT have OT", loooool...is harsh huh....lol... hugs:heartbeat:D

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First I would like to tell you that NO OVER TIME, really means NO OVER TIME.

Got it. It happens that this is being talked about every so often in the facility. I would do so freely if a supervisor tells me that I can get OT. It also happens that our Nursing Coordinator said "Don't every work for the company without getting paid for what you're doing." Just want to know my rights, not insisting on something that cannot be.

"I bet she has never worked as a nurse"... you choosed totally wrong the words.... probably because you are frustated.... NEVER BUT NEVER to use these words with no one...

I just told myself that out of frustration. However, at one point she did say that, so I remembered it and wrote it here.

"They always tell me that I am doing a great job, and they have even asked me if I am up for some leadership roles (which I really want), just goes to show that I am on the right track. "....... now I really don't understand where is your problem..is a contradiction here....

I am as confused as you are with this matter. The company big bosses even talked to me about this, asked what else I want to do, what my plans are. I was even asked what time I want to come in to work because apparently they would like someone to do something and that I am a very good candidate. I must say I've made expectations because of this.... (until they hired a fresh RN, getting her first job at the facility as a supervisor). I started to question my ability, but still I got praises from them and the residents and their families and truly believe that I was getting even better at what I do.

DON is not there to help you passing meds or doing charting

I totally agree, absolutely. There's this one isolated case i could not forget. There's NO supervisor on the floor, the patient who needs the TPN is not on my station (the charge nurse in that station is not certified to administer TPNs), I'm having a number of "urgent" matters I need to take care of in my station, the treatment nurse has just arrived and while I was attending to the TPN patient on the other side a patient of mine fell! It sounds bad but that was a really crazy day. (Oh, and I was thinking maybe I could get OT for that but I didn't, because another nurse was called to help me and finished passing the meds that I failed to give when I was called in the other station.)

"We do not get a chance to check our time record, but when paycheck comes the hours are perfectly tallied. We don't get OT pay unless we show written evidence that it was 'authorized' by the DON or supervisor.

Wrong incriminatory statement here...if you really belive in it, find a lawyer....personally I am very carefully to work with anyone with this attitude..I am so sorry

I mentioned this with all honesty. I clock out ONLY when I'm done with everything. To guesstimate, that would count to at least 3 hrs per pay period. If I do get to clock out for lunch and clock in late by a minute or so, a quarter of my time would be deducted. But yes, I never got to see a time sheet. If any corrections, everything would be verbal.

How many residents you take care on they told you when you was hired and you said YES?????

I was told that "there are 30++ patients in one station, but during the day, there's a treatment nurse, a supervisor, a DON, a DSD and Department Heads who can help." As a first-time nurse I had no idea how much 30 residents translate in terms of workload and I needed a job to start with. Turns out, each of those people expected to "help" also have their own work to do. (and I forgot to say that the administrator told us "the DON and the DSD who are RNs may be asked to help with nursing tasks and may cover the station when needed.")

ZUZI, thanks for your post. I need to hear the 'real deal' and I realized that I shouldn't be taking things emotionally or overreacting in any way. :up: However, even if I convince myself that I am happy with what I do and I like the people I work with, I still believe that there's something not so right about the place I am working and that I might need to take myself somewhere else. I am a pretty quiet person in the workplace and really serious about my job, but I guess I also need to check for myself what might be getting me 'stuck' in the future.

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Now I have several concerns on this.

Let me see if I can help answer some of your questions.

You are legally entitled for overtime pay for any hours you work over 40 in a week. Period. The company can't decide not to pay you overtime if you worked overtime.

If you are unable to take a lunch break most places have a clock correction form you fill out so that you get paid for the time you worked. It is illegeal for the compay to not pay you for hours you worked. Some companies will require you to let the supervisor know you aren't going to be able to take a lunch break and they are supposed to arrange someone to cover for you so you can go.

I don't know what you mean when you ask if time for charting would qualify you for OT. ANY time you work over 40 hours is overtime and the company has to pay you for this.

Number four also makes no sense to me. What state are you in that an LPN can't give IV meds and hang IV fluids? In my facility in my state I hang IV meds, hang IV fluids and TPN almost every single day. The only thing I can't do in my state is push IV meds which isn't an issue because SNFs don't do IV pushes. I think if for some reason the facility doesn't allow LPNs to do these things the RN supervisor needs to do them if it's affecting your ability to complete your own tasks. Why wouldn't it be legal for you to hang an IV fluid?

There has to be some record of your hours for you to review and sign off that it was accurate every week. I've never heard of a company that doesn't provide this and I don't think it's legal for them not to have a way for you to review the accuray of your hours.

There are no laws anywhere in the country regulating the number of patients a nurse can have in a SNF that I'm aware of.

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Now I have several concerns on this.

Let me see if I can help answer some of your questions.

You are legally entitled for overtime pay for any hours you work over 40 in a week. Period. The company can't decide not to pay you overtime if you worked overtime.

If you are unable to take a lunch break most places have a clock correction form you fill out so that you get paid for the time you worked. It is illegeal for the compay to not pay you for hours you worked. Some companies will require you to let the supervisor know you aren't going to be able to take a lunch break and they are supposed to arrange someone to cover for you so you can go.

I don't know what you mean when you ask if time for charting would qualify you for OT. ANY time you work over 40 hours is overtime and the company has to pay you for this.

Number four also makes no sense to me. What state are you in that an LPN can't give IV meds and hang IV fluids? In my facility in my state I hang IV meds, hang IV fluids and TPN almost every single day. The only thing I can't do in my state is push IV meds which isn't an issue because SNFs don't do IV pushes. I think if for some reason the facility doesn't allow LPNs to do these things the RN supervisor needs to do them if it's affecting your ability to complete your own tasks. Why wouldn't it be legal for you to hang an IV fluid?

There has to be some record of your hours for you to review and sign off that it was accurate every week. I've never heard of a company that doesn't provide this and I don't think it's legal for them not to have a way for you to review the accuray of your hours.

There are no laws anywhere in the country regulating the number of patients a nurse can have in a SNF that I'm aware of.

Thanks for your informative post. I mentioned about the lunch break because that's what's been going on, although I don't complain and chase my way to be compensated for that. I know that it's what the law says, however, a lot of times, especially when I was working PMs, there was nobody else who could cover the floor for me other than the nurse in the other station who also has her tasks to do.

As for the charting, I only get so start charting when I'm done with the meds, and that is about an hour before the shift ends. i have at least 18-20 nurses notes to write (it varies) plus my 24 hr report,, and while I do that i cannot shut the telephone off nor ignore my residents when they come to see me. Sometimes when really unfortunate, something comes up toward the end of the shift and it is necessary that I attend to it. Many things can happen in such a small amount of time which keep my from finishing my last task on time. This does not happen all the time, but it happens quite often.

I work in California. I myself didn't get that, but the DON personally told me that I had to do it because the LVN doesn't want to do it because she's not certified to do it. I explained that I have a lot of things going on in my side and I needed to prioritize. I suggested that maybe she could attend to it herself for the meantime (I felt really bad for having done that but I didn't know what else to do) and I'll get there as soon as I could. In the end, the treatment nurse who just arrived was asked to cover my floor, and so I went ahead to speak with the MD and get things running. While I was doing what I was asked to do, I was told that a patient of mine fell off his wheelchair. I felt even worse.

This time record I need to keep an eye on. I've worked in two other companies and got to sign time sheets. I wonder if this company is cutting down on paper costs, but I still believe that we get our hours in check. (One time I agreed to work extra because I needed money, come pay day it wasn't reflected on my paycheck.)

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Specializes in pulm/cardiology pcu, surgical onc.

There shouldn't be any reason why you can't see your time sheet. Have you requested it before? There are facilities out there that are trying to cut corners and say no to OT. While there are some things you can pass off to the next shift things like charting you can't of course. I would absolutely refuse to work for a facility for free. It sounds like to me very poor/shady management and/or they are feeding you a line of bull because you're letting them, consult your states labor laws. In some states LPN's have very limited practice so if that's the case then you as the RN would be responsible for IV's, TPN, etc no matter if it was 'your resident' or not. And you say while you were helping out the other side you had a resident fall.... Chances are you wouldn't have prevented that unless you were right there at just the exact moment so you can't stress on it you're not the only staff member right?

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i think you'd be better off getting your answers from your state's dept of labor.

you could even make an anonymous report to them, and let them investigate...

because the way it sounds, they're fudging work sheets to ensure nothing shows more than 40 hrs.

you need to keep a personal log of everything you do, including 'favors' ask of you and by whom, and anything that shows the cumulative work you've done that necessitated working beyond the 40 hrs.

keep records of any/all pertinent conversations that could potentially implicate you re why you're working ot.

this is illegal, and you are due every minute you've worked.

it sounds like it's time to be a bit more proactive.

wishing you the very best.

leslie

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Specializes in home health, dialysis, others.

I heartily agree w/Leslie. At the very least, you should be documenting when you don't get lunch. If this means keeping a personal diary, then do it. I might also ask the other nurse if she gets to take lunch, and what she does if she misses hers. Start by bringing your lunch, and trying to determine when is the best time to take it.Then attempt to block that time out of your schedule. MAKE IT A PRIORITY.

Try to establish your new schedule first, so it can be said that you were able to take lunch on Monday and Tuesday, but not on Wednesday. Any day , before you leave, be sure to tell them you were not able to take your lunch. If you are talking about night shift, and I presume you were, tell them - in the nicest way possible - that you would like to know how you can inform someone that you won't be able to get your break. Voicemail? Email? Note? The first two are at least date/time stamped!

And call the labor dept as the last resort.

Start looking for another job; they are not going to hire a 3rd nurse for nights!

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Specializes in LTC, Disease Management, smoking Cessati.

I would say slim to none, and 38 patients is a load, I had that many on Midnights with Me and one cna. You have to find a rhythm and a way that works best for you. Take that lunch. Everything will wait for half hour unless its an emergency. It helps clear your mind to take on the next task. We never got overtime so I learned real fast how to get done on time. And yes my residents were straight from the hospital, Skilled Side of the Home.... and they were very well taken care of.

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Specializes in trauma, ortho, burns, plastic surgery.

I worked in couple of LTCs and hospital also... just IF you don't, you don't take "lunch time"...is just your option. Nurses tell I don't have time to take my lunch....i am sorry ... I was there and I know how it is.... all employers know the law.... NO ONE tell nurses don't take your break.... is a big No No, ... the nurses choose to not take them break, to be able to finsh them work.... and after to tell..."i don't take my break...I work so much".

The problem is like that.... the work load is low or high, when you are employed you deserve to know about it, if you accept and you are hired, please don't come after and tell that is sooooo hard, because you knew it before to be hired and you said YES!

Now YOU are entitled to be paid for each OT hour by law, but also by law the owner could organize his house how he wants, based on the same laws.... when you will become old you will see... depend just of us what type of environment we create and work in.........just a smart advice....

People try to speak out bad thinks about a company when they want and belive that they deserve to be more than they are or them are not happy with them position, .... Wherever you will be, up to top or down to bottom the BALANCE is the word.

I saw so many unbalanced in my life than ...my brain hurt me, loooooool. No one wants trouble makers.....I worked with so many than is scarry to have one closed... they could push you in trouble just by them twisted mind... or them constant unhapiness.....or "I want more"- style.

You are a nice one...don't go with the flow...

Try to change your mind, be a good-smart one...or open your own company and be your own owner, lol, and neither then is not easy....lol...you are JUST young!

A hippy gurl here...NO WAR...but everyone choose them way....

Take your break...no one will die for sure in your break

Try to not tell "story of patient life" in charting

Pass meds means pass meds not psychanlyzing and entretainment of patient, assesment first in the time with passing meds

Prioritize

Go out on time..is easy!

For stories.... come on AN! Love you hon, you are for sure a good one...just resume your self a little....

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Specializes in Med/Surg/Onc, LTAC.

I might be completely wrong here.... but from what I understand time cards can not be altered, and you need to be paid what you punch - at least where I work. We have signs all over my facility stating NOT to punch in early or late because then OT has to be paid out. If time cards are being changed... maybe there is an issue there???

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