What Are the Chances of Getting Paid Overtime in a SNF?

[the_alchemist]

I'm not sure if it happens elsewhere, but during my orientation, I was told by the staff that the company barely gives OT pay to employees. Our unit can house 39 residents at one time, 38 the most I got so far, 32 on average. After passing meds, you get phone calls in between, PRN from residents, all with different kinds of personalities, families that needed to hear from you, 5 CNAs to help in the AM, 3 on evening shift and 2 for NOCs. And when you're done, do charting of 18-20 patient average (lucky if you get less than 18). I barely even have time to go to lunch since when I worked PMs, there would only be 2 licensed staff (myself and the staff on the other station), and on AM shift, the workload is just too much and the supervisor often goes to meetings so nobody can actually cover for me. That has been going on for 8 months. The first time I ever requested for OT was when I had 37 residents, and the Administrator asked me why I am requesting OT pay I said "high census, more workload" and she rolled her eyes, embarassed me in front of a new employee, chuckled and answered "Of course i know what high census means!" So i enumerated all the instances I could use to justify my OT "request." I bet she has never worked as a nurse, and while I want to give quality care to all of my patients, I feel the need to be compensated for what I do. I don't think I am being inefficient. I make sure I never waste a second. I barely even talk to other employees unless truly necessary for the job, only because I believe that it would use up my time little by little and will eventually make me end up late. They always tell me that I am doing a great job, and they have even asked me if I am up for some leadership roles (which I really want), just goes to show that I am on the right track.

Now I have several concerns on this.

1. At what instances can we actually be paid OT?

2. If I don't punch out for lunch (because I didnt have a chance to go on break), it gets automatically 'edited' to show that I did take a break, and so I dont get paid extra 30 minutes for that.

3. It is only when I'm done with med pass that I get a chance to do my charting. Would that qualify for OT or not?

4. Because I am the only RN on the floor at any given shift (the DON does not help), I would be asked to give IV meds, hang IV fluids and TPNs to residents on the other side. I do it openly because I know they depend on me and I never complained about that. Just got me to think now if I can use that as a reason to 'request' OT or if it is actually legal

5. We do not get a chance to check our time record, but when paycheck comes the hours are perfectly tallied. We don't get OT pay unless we show written evidence that it was 'authorized' by the DON or supervisor

6. During in-service we are asked to sign an attendance sheet, and i didn't know that I was supposed to sign an OT request for each and every in-service meeting I attended to. (doesn't the attendance sheet that purpose?)

and last but not the least, #7: how many residents can a charge nurse legally have in a skilled nursing facility setting?

[OC_An Khe]

If you are hired in a non exempt position (paid an hourly wage) then the practice of not paying you OT and "editing " your "meal break" is illegal. I would be looking for other employment and when I secure another position I would leave. Unless of course you wish to stay and be continually abused.

[Isabel-ANP-BC]

Unless you are exempt from overtime because of being salaried, you have to be paid overtime. This includes charting, missed lunches, etc. I would, however, take that lunch break from now on--you need it to recharge your batteries.

And, as several other people said, you do have a right to see your time card. Contact your labor board to find out your state specific rights.

[eldragon]

The problem is not with time management, but with a ridiculous patient load.

Management loves to say things like "no overtime!" and then they give you 38 patients to care for. Or 15 or 50. Meanwhile, you have a "time management" issue because you can't get 10 hours worth of work done in 8.

Don't you wish you could just tell them that, for 8 hours of pay, you will only do 8 hours of work?? No overtime is right, DON! You pay me for 8 hours of work and I do 8 hours of work!!!

And if they don't pay you for your lunch, and dock your check........they are telling you that all that trivial work they expect you to do that can't be done in the time-frame allotted, means nothing to them. Only money does. They don't care about you, or how much you need a break. They don't care about the patients, or nurse to patient ratios. They only want that half hours pay back from you. "No work - no pay!"

They only care about patient safety in that they are trying to avoid lawsuits.

My last job docked my check for 30 minutes a day, for my "lunch-break." In the two years I worked there, I ate in my car........a packed lunch I brought from home. During winter months, I froze my butt off. During summer months, I sweat my tail off. Still, I ate canned tuna, boiled eggs and peanut butter sandwiches in my car.

It was what it was, but I took that break everyday. It was my time and therefore I took it.

Always take your unpaid lunch-break. Don't ever work for free. The owner of the facility, the DON and nobody else there is working for free, and you shouldn't either.

[Nascar nurse, ASN, RN]

Always take your unpaid lunch-break. Don't ever work for free. The owner of the facility, the DON and nobody else there is working for free, and you shouldn't either.

I DO agree with your post.. but this last line kind of made me chuckle. I am an ADON in LTC. I work salary based on a 40 hour work week and you had darn well better believe that I DO WORK FOR FREE. I give about 4-6 hrs/week, every week that I am not reimbursed for. I completely realize that I choose this job and I am not whining.. I am just pointing out the inaccuracy of your last statement. Better beleive that most salaried management ARE putting in some free hours in every LTC across the county - you just aren't aware of it.

[realnursealso/LPN, LPN]

I have no idea what state you live in, but in NY, it is illegal to not pay you for the hours you work. Someplaces thought they could get away with that "no overtime" crap. Guess what? The labor board TOLD them different, they paid alright and paid dearly. Some day higher ups will get a clue. The patient load you described is not doable in 8 hours and I don't need to hear about how others take care of 50 people where they work. It's not safe, it's not realistic, and anyone who says it is is full of it.:icon_roll

[eldragon]

I DO agree with your post.. but this last line kind of made me chuckle. I am an ADON in LTC. I work salary based on a 40 hour work week and you had darn well better believe that I DO WORK FOR FREE. I give about 4-6 hrs/week, every week that I am not reimbursed for. I completely realize that I choose this job and I am not whining.. I am just pointing out the inaccuracy of your last statement. Better beleive that most salaried management ARE putting in some free hours in every LTC across the county - you just aren't aware of it.

I have a background in management and opened a casino as a salaried manager. I worked over year - 15 hours per day - 6 or 7 days per week, salaried. If I broke down my salary into hourly wages, I didn't even made minimum wage. However, some of those hours were spent sitting at a desk, and some were spent reading documents, emails, etc. I always had a paid hour lunch break, and never had to pay for my food. That job was much easier than nursing. Nursing is exhausting, back-breaking work if you do it right. Floor nursing, in my opinion, is a non-stop grind and it wears you down.

The labor board allows salaries to be paid to management, because the idea is - you are supposed to have weeks when you don't work the full 40 hours. I know that's hilarious. But that is one guideline that has to be met if employees are allowed salaries instead of hourly wages. If you call in, you still get paid. If you leave early for a hair appointment, like my director does, you still get paid. I know it doesn't mean you rake in tons of cash and spend days on your boat doing it, I'm just stating the obvious.

But I know all about salaries, having been a manager myself. Still, as a salaried employee - you are getting paid for the time you are at work. It just might not be as much as you would be making if you made an hourly wage.

[imaRN08]

Number four also makes no sense to me. What state are you in that an LPN can't give IV meds and hang IV fluids? In my facility in my state I hang IV meds, hang IV fluids and TPN almost every single day. The only thing I can't do in my state is push IV meds which isn't an issue because SNFs don't do IV pushes. I think if for some reason the facility doesn't allow LPNs to do these things the RN supervisor needs to do them if it's affecting your ability to complete your own tasks. Why wouldn't it be legal for you to hang an IV fluid?

If they are working in IA, then a LARGE majority of that statement is true! LPN's in IA are not allowed to do pushes, or ANY IV fluids which has medication in it (with the exception of K in NS, etc) and they are only allowed after taking a state approved course, after they have worked a min of 2000 some clinical hrs. they are not allowed to start IV's either until after this class. Also, in the state of IA, LPN's are only allowed to do and document assessments w/o a RN co sign in LTC/SNF. they must have a RN sign if they are working in acute settings. this is why most, if not all LPN's in IA work in LTC/SNF. Practice acts come #1, employer policies come #2 in what can and cannot be performed by nurses.

[imaRN08]

let me clarify on my post. IA LPN's are still not allowed to do pushes or IV antibiotic/TPN after taking the course.