Things you'd LOVE to tell the doc and get away with it....

Nurses General Nursing

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pawsomepooch47

122 Posts

Specializes in MS, OB, PEDI, VNA, TELEM.

i have found that if being snapped at , yelled at, sneered at is met with a similar response, it is not likely to happen again!:smiley_ab

Specializes in Med/Surg.
I'm sorry, I suppose we just don't share the same views.

It's not that I am opposed to you venting, rather I just wanted to address the fact that another poster on here claimed to be rather disrespectful and unprofessional towards an MD (another member of the team). In fact, it was another poster who pointed this out.

I don't think my point was necessarily offensive. There's a difference between actions and words. I was simply addressing that. Albeit in perhaps not the best way.

Thank you for your advice, and I do plan on applying to med school (no flaming please). Hence why this is a personal sore spot for me. I'm sick of the hierarchy in healthcare. I hope that I will be part of the new generation of doctors who values the input from nurses.

I hate seeing the negative comments, as it reinforces the many stereotypes that people have already. Nursing is known for lateral violence. No need to extend that perception. Denying this won't help, but acknowledging it can.

I'm all for venting, but actions are another story. That was my main issue, and it was directed primarily at one poster. Instead of focusing on my comments, perhaps we should be finding out why the OP handled that call the way she/he did. As suggested earlier, the MD likely was looking for the RNs input.

P.S. We don't offer 2 year RN programs in Canada anymore, almost all provinces require 4 year degrees for RNs. LPNs now have a 2 year diploma. In my case, it IS true that nurses have a higher level of education than they once did. I was simply pointing that out. Personally, I don't care if you are an LPN (2 years), RPN/Psychiatric Nurse (3 years), or RN (4 years).

I hope everyone lets this go. Back to venting....

The MD was not looking for the RN's input when his answer was "ok." I've had physicians agree to a particular med that I ask for, and they say, "I'm not very familiar with that, how is it usually dosed?" They will either go with what I suggest, or have me write for pharmacy to dose (not that they don't trust me, but I'm not a physician, so I don't take offense either way). THAT is "looking for the nurse's input."

The crack about "why don't you just go to medical school?" or whatever, is uncalled for. Nursing is a different profession, most nurses don't WANT to be doctors. Do you REALLY, honestly think that docs don't complain (vent) about nurses??? PLEASE. We're getting our vents out in a safe environment, to people who understand our frustrations....that is not "lateral violence."

Maybe there aren't 2 year RN degrees in Canada any more, but there still are in the US. So I take offense to your continued comparisons to time spent = degree. At the end of the day, my license is the same as yours. And I'm a damn good RN.

pawsomepooch47

122 Posts

Specializes in MS, OB, PEDI, VNA, TELEM.

i had the distinct pleasure of firing a pompous ass general surgeon who we had to take for my 13 yo sons ruptured appendix because he was on call that night. wow was he surprised! after a week in the hospital with a wbc that wouldn't go down and a fever and unable to eat or drink with his closed incision draining green drainage and mr. surgeon refusal to do a repeat abd ct or change antibiotics-- (i was told every day "maybe just another day and things will improve") i fired him, got a better surgeon who did a repeat ct which showed multiple pockets of fluid in his abdomen and took him back to surgery that afternoon and changed his antibiotics. after that he finally got better but not without an ng tube, tpn and a central line. he lost 16 pounds in 16 days in the hospital. pompous ass has now retired--about 2 years too late.

Specializes in OR 35 years; crosstrained ER/ICU/PACU.

its almost like a bully situation with some docs. they will push you around and abuse you until you stand up for yourself. once you do, they tend to behave. so sad to see this childlike behaviour in supposedly mature adults who are pervasively looked up to as leaders and professionals.

you hit the nail on the head: i've been an rn for over 30 yrs. now, & the majority of the docs are now younger than i am. the ones that i've stood up to are now the ones who treat me with the most respect,. of course, they all have their moments, as do we, but i think if you show some respect while proving you have a brain & a spine, things are much better between you. :yeah: hang in there, remember to be an advocate for your jpatient, no matter what!

lamazeteacher

2,170 Posts

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

Have any of you who work with "hospitalists" found them more congruent with nursing staff members? The private physicians seem to mess up every good care plan, contradicting anyone who doesn't agree with them........

mama_d, BSN, RN

1,187 Posts

Specializes in tele, oncology.

Actually, the one doc that I have consistent problems with (and posted about, apparently causing controversy, for which I apologize) is a hospitalist.

Putting on my big girl panties here...for anyone who I offended by my prior posts, I apologize. Perhaps it was in poor taste for me to post what I did, but I would like to point out that it is ONE doc that I have this problem with, as do ALL of the nurses I work with. Not one nurse has a good relationship with this doc, and many have said much worse than I did to him. However, those of you who pointed out that this thread was for what you would like to say as opposed to what was actually said are correct, and I will try to pay closer attention in the future.

Even though it's not as much fun, here's a couple more from me :)

Dr. X, thank you so much for your needed acknowledgment of the absolute crazy that the patient's daughter embodies, and laughing about the fact that I had to call you at 0200 with her insane demands. If all the docs engendered the same camaraderie as you do, work would be a much better place.

Dr. Y, thank you for remembering my name and asking about my baby, even though you haven't seen me since before I went on maternity leave and the baby's almost three now. One of the reasons why we all love you is b/c of the simple fact that you know all of our names, and actually use the word "please" when you want something. To all the other docs: this is why we'll bend over backward for this doc...emulate his example, and we'll do the same for you.

nursechris1

104 Posts

To a doctor who wanted to cut the hospice patient's pain medicine in half, just to see if she was really in pain. "How about if I kick you in the family jewels, to see if it really hurts?"

I told a different physician "I informed the patient's family that you did not want to treat their dying mom's pain. They family has decided to fire you and obtain another physician, and yes, our medical director would be happy to care for this patient."

Just because you are the patient's primary physician, does not mean that no other physician can treat your patient without asking you. You are an internal med doctor. You are not an Oncologist or Cardiologist. If you wanted to be either of those specialties, you should have gone to school for that. The patient is not "yours". You work for the patient, you do not own them.

pawsomepooch47

122 Posts

Specializes in MS, OB, PEDI, VNA, TELEM.
Thank you for all of your posts. They were a logical level-headed breath of fresh air. I know this thread is supposed to be funny (and I can appreciate humor) but trashing healthcare team members is unfair. Some of this is too far. Both sides need to work together. The anger and bitterness that is evident in nursing obviously has complex causes that can't be addressed overnight. But I do think that everyone should at least do their best to be professional and polite, to everyone.

If you are truly unhappy with nursing, consider another career. There are lots of other options in healthcare. Instead of complaining, if you think that you can do better, why not go back to school and apply to med school and become an MD yourself? Actions are what is needed to make a difference.

Another student who thinks you can snap your fingers and go back to school--just change careers.....

Scrubby

1,313 Posts

Specializes in Operating Room Nursing.
Another student who thinks you can snap your fingers and go back to school--just change careers.....

I actually agree that if a person truly HATES their job and it affects their life to the point where it's impacting on them physically and emotionally it may be necessary to look at other options. I don't believe that once your a nurse your incapable of doing anything else.

Virgo_RN, BSN, RN

3,543 Posts

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, ED.
Have any of you who work with "hospitalists" found them more congruent with nursing staff members? The private physicians seem to mess up every good care plan, contradicting anyone who doesn't agree with them........

I really like most of the hospitalists where I work. There are a couple I could do without, but they are by and large much, much more responsive and courteous than the specialists, with the exception of the cardiologists. The cardiologists at my facility are both skilled physicians and downright nice human beings. The two newer ones that had to be spoken to about they way they treat the nurses have shown a lot of improvement, and I'd let them treat me or a family member, because they are pretty good at their job.

CanuckStudent

102 Posts

The MD was not looking for the RN's input when his answer was "ok." I've had physicians agree to a particular med that I ask for, and they say, "I'm not very familiar with that, how is it usually dosed?" They will either go with what I suggest, or have me write for pharmacy to dose (not that they don't trust me, but I'm not a physician, so I don't take offense either way). THAT is "looking for the nurse's input."

The crack about "why don't you just go to medical school?" or whatever, is uncalled for. Nursing is a different profession, most nurses don't WANT to be doctors. Do you REALLY, honestly think that docs don't complain (vent) about nurses??? PLEASE. We're getting our vents out in a safe environment, to people who understand our frustrations....that is not "lateral violence."

Maybe there aren't 2 year RN degrees in Canada any more, but there still are in the US. So I take offense to your continued comparisons to time spent = degree. At the end of the day, my license is the same as yours. And I'm a damn good RN.

Sure. I actually agree with what you are saying. I apologize for how I presented my views. As I stated earlier, I am not looking to upset anyone. I explained that I get frustrated simply because *I* care a lot about nurse-doctor interactions.

I do apologize for my "go to med school then" cliched comment. That was in frustration. I know of course that if you wanted to be an MD you would have gone to med school. I am fully aware of the differences between the nursing and medicine models of care. I chose a poor way to express that I felt that some people were making comments discrediting the job of the doctors that should be seen as their peers. Again, I took it more seriously than intended, as I admitted that it is a sore spot for me. I am only human, and humans make mistakes. ;)

I have to admit that most MDs that I know respect nurses. So I'm somewhat shocked that others think this is not the case. I can't see myself being any other way, although I guess I feel frustrated by some of the stereotypical comments I see on this forum. Respect must go both ways.

As the song goes..."Why can't we be friends...".....:lol2:

The University of Manitoba for example integrates all healthcare disciplines early on so they learn to respect each scope of practice and profession. This includes nursing, of course. Watch this whole video, and you can see that is mentioned more than once. Please watch:

I believe that ALL healthcare workers should work together.

Sorry about the diversion, I explained myself, now I hope we can bury this one! I'm willing to accept fault here. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone and I apologize.

Virgo_RN, BSN, RN

3,543 Posts

Specializes in Cardiac Telemetry, ED.
I actually agree that if a person truly HATES their job and it affects their life to the point where it's impacting on them physically and emotionally it may be necessary to look at other options. I don't believe that once your a nurse your incapable of doing anything else.

I tend to agree with this sentiment, but at the same time, many of us worked very hard for a number of years to achieve the goal of becoming a nurse, often racking up large student loans, and so the thought of going back to school and racking up more debt can be daunting. For myself, the process of changing careers and becoming a nurse took a total of five years. I had to get my CNA certificate, work as a CNA to gain points for my nursing school application, take two years' worth of prerequisites for the nursing program, then apply, be accepted, and complete nursing school. All this while working and raising children, doing without, and taking out student loans, all because I wanted to be a nurse. I don't HATE my job, but I don't love it either. There are days where I like what I do and feel like I've accomplished what I became a nurse to accomplish, and days where I would rather be flipping burgers. One of my major motivations for becoming a nurse was because I wanted to LOVE my job. To say a future career change is not in the picture would not be accurate, but I worked far too long and far too hard to just suddenly give up nursing because of a few bad days. If I do change careers, it will be motivated by internal factors, not because someone posted on the internet that if I don't love nursing, I should leave nursing.

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