Terminated after applying to another department...Is this legal???

heron, ASN, RN · Sep 12, 2009

I'm sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, the only rights you have are in the employee handbook, federal antidiscrimination laws and, if a union shop, your union contract. Check the handbook and see if they violated their own policy when they fired you before you go into HR, so you'll have some talking points.

Peri · Sep 12, 2009

Pity you aren't in the UK as I think this could be taken to a Tribunal and would be classed as unfair dismissal.

wife&mommyRN · Sep 12, 2009

i am very sorry for your loss, i know this must be very difficult for you. i honestly think it was very mature of you to go through the proper steps in transitioning to another department because you knew that this wasn't for you you. unfourtunately, i can't offer any legal advice because i have no experience in this area. it does sound like your age and experience may have been a factor in your dismissal. they would have to risk training you all over again and who knows if that position would be right for you. it's a sad situation, but in this economy i think they are protecting their finances because 1, they have already lost someone from orientation (& money) and they could have trained some else and 2, they have to make the judgement to train you someone that quit during orientation and had experience in the or/ train a new grad that originally applied for the position. they would rather take the risk with the other new grad because they have already lost money training you. i can understand the hospitals reasoning, but they should have explained to you from the beginning the potential consequences in the beginning and given you the option to stay, i am sure you could & would have stuck it out for @ least 1 yr. use your current experience to your advantage. good luck u can do this :)

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 12, 2009

I am sorry that you find in this situation, but if you think about it, you made some poor choices that have come back to haunt you. Look at it from the hospital's perspective:

1. You told people that you were not sure that OR was for you.

2. Your manager /educator didn't over-react, treat you badly, etc. at that time because they wanted to give you some time to think it through. So, they gave you that time.

3. You took some time to think it through and decided that OR was not for you at this time. You took action to leave the OR, demonstrating that you had decided not to work in the OR. No one pressured you to make that decision.

4. At that time, your manager allowed you to finish the course so that you would have that credential -- knowing that you were not planning to leave.

5. The hospital cannot afford to continue to pay for your orientation if you have decided to leave (-- which you announced that you would do and took action to do.) They are not running a free education program for people to take while they job search. They need to use their resources to educate people who are committed to working for them.

It's unfortunate that your other job possibility did not come through. But you really can't blame the OR for that -- of for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars on your orientation after you have announced your intent to not work there. It's a hard lesson to learn, but you really have to consider the "other guy's" point of view when you make decisions about leaving a job. You have to be careful about who you share that information with ... and when you share it. It's almost always best to keep your doubts about your current job and any plans to leave private until after you have either secured your next job or are at least prepared to leave the current one if necessary. There are a few exceptions to that general rule, but not in a case such as yours.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Sep 12, 2009

If you were in your 90 probationary period they don't have to give you any reason. Best of luck finding a new position. It was not a good introduction into nursing.

Since you were let go during your probationary period you could have left no questions asked. I would get some counseling on how to handle this when applying for your next position.

DMCRN · Sep 12, 2009

Thank you everyone for your responses,

I probably didn't make this clear but I do want to stay in the OR, I was going through alot of confusion during this computer class due to lack of patient care and the torture of sitting on a computer 8 hours a day for 8 weeks. I did circulate with my preceptor the past 2 days and again realized why I had loved the OR so much and that I had made a mistake in trying to transfer. I had never had any reservations about the OR prior to taking this online class. I have put alot of time and effort into training for this position, and I totally understand the hospital's financial point of view. But I do believe that I should be given another chance. After talking to some of my co-workers I realized that I didn't technically get terminated. When I asked the director if i was being fired she never said yes or no. She only suggested that I use my PTO time while looking for another job. Its almost as if they are trying to force me to resign. I never got a pink slip or any paper work. I got advice from one of my coworkers who has been in this OR for 30 something years that I should keep showing up to work since I am on the schedule and not technically terminated. And also have a meeting with the director, manager, and educator and prove to them that I really want to be there.

DMCRN · Sep 12, 2009

I actually had just passed the 90 day probationary period by about 5 days, I forgot to add that in the original post

Jolie, BSN · Sep 12, 2009

It is most likely legal, and also very understandable, as llg explained.

Welcome to the learning curve of the real-world job market.

Most states and employers utilize an at-will employment model in which either the employer or employee has the right to terminate employment at any time and for any reason. The exceptions are a few protected situations such as firing for age, race, disability, etc. or a contract that spell out the specifics of terminating employment.

In addition, most employers utilize a probationary period during which they reserve the right to dismiss an employee (or accept the resignation of an employee) who is not making satisfactory progress in training or acclimating to the position for which s/he was hired. This usually involves no notice, as it is counter-productive to continue to pay an employee's salary and training costs when that employee will never produce any financial benefit to the employer.

As an orientee, your salary represented thousands of non-reimbursed dollars to your employer. Since you did not reach the point of working independently, the hospital had no opportunity to recoup the cost of hiring and training you. I was once told that it takes over 2 years of full-time employment for a hospital to fully recop the cost of hiring and orienting a new staff member, based on an orientation period of 12 weeks. Perhaps that will help you to see that it would have been irresponsible (from a budget standpoint) for your manager to continue your employment once your intentions were made clear.

I'm sorry for your experience.

ETA: You posted while I was responding. I see that you explained some of the points I raised.

Best of luck to you.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Sep 12, 2009

I am sorry this happened to you. Can not even imagine. I am not sure what your rights are since when you are in orientation I think you are kinda in that "at will" stage and can be fire for any reason. To play devils advocate, from managements points of view, it cost a lot of money to train a new nurse (a teacher once told me about 60,000) so they probably figure they can not keeping paying you while you figure out what you are doing. I know in my hospital you have to be in a department at least six months before you can transfer. They really probably feel they wasted money on you. Regardless of the fact that you still want to stay in O.R. your applying to another department while still orienting was an indication to them that you did not want to be in O.R. In one post you say you are upset that they fired you for wanting to leave the O.R. and having changed your mind about it and being unsure, then in another post you say you want to stay in the O.R. They can not afford for you to be indecisive. You could try to get your job back in the O.R. but they may be too scared to invest anymore money in training you in O.R. when they already know your are unsure of wanting to work there. What if you just leave after your orientation? They wasted all that money, and if you move to another department they will have to spend more money to train you there.

CaribMuslimah, RN · Sep 12, 2009

sounds fishy to me. i would go through the employee handbook, etc. to make sure what they did was legal. people go to work every day saying they hate what they do (and you didn't even take it that far). instead, you did things the mature way, seeking guidance, letting everyone know ahead of time what you are thinking. minds change all the time. yeah, they spent money orienting you...and? won't that information come in handy in the future?

dot i's and cross t's. i don't think you should settle for their answer. albeit, you may not want to work there anymore if or when you do decide to investigate further

Eiano · Sep 12, 2009

Is "terminated" your phrasing or theirs? You made it sound as though they've fired you, but then you go on to say they "suggest" you take time to look for new employment... so which is it?

If they haven't given you a straight answer, then I'd continue working, and during your precepting, you'd better show just how terribly mistaken you were to doubt the OR. You should show up early, ask questions when appropriate and dote on how perfect the OR is. It is impossible to get a job these days and if you truly believe you want OR, you'd better stick it out.... it's not going to look good when looking for a new job that you were only with the hospital for 2 months, especially in the OR where between 2-6 months are spent in the classroom. They'll know something is fishy.

Good luck!:wink2: