Terminated after applying to another department...Is this legal???

[DMCRN]

Hi Everyone,

Here's my story- I am a new RN, graduated in May, passed the boards in July. I worked in the OR for over a year as a student nurse tech before taking a position as an RN in the OR. My facility requires that new nurses to the OR take an online Peri-op 101 class for 8 weeks, so I have been on a computer in the library at my work for 8 weeks for 8 hours/day. During this time I started to rethink my decision about coming to the OR as a new grad. I don't know if it was the computer class that was getting to my head or the lack of patient care for these 8 weeks but I was really confused. So I talked to our RN orientation coordinator, who was really helpful and supportive. She told me if i wasnt happy I should talk to my manager and apply for another position in the hospital. Well our OR manager left for another job over 6 months ago so we have our assistant manager filling his position at the moment. I ended up talking to our nurse educator first and told her the confusion I was experiencing. She was also very supportive and told me I have to listen to my heart and if it is not in the OR i should seek out another position. So I applied to the surgical floor in our hospital. My nurse educator took it upon herself to tell our assistant manager and our director(who is also the director of the surgical floor I applied to). The director came to talk to me and again she was very understanding and even told me that she would never be able to work in the OR, that she enjoys more patient care (and she is the OR director!) and that she would recommend me for the new position, but she wanted me to finish my peri-op 101 course before leaving so that I could have it if i ever wanted to come back in the future. So i interviewed on the surgical floor and hadn't heard anything back until yesterday when the director came and found me and took me to her office. I thought she was going to tell me i got the job on the surgical floor. WRONG! She informed me that I didn't get the job on the floor and that Monday would be my last day in the OR. She suggested that I use any PTO time I have to look for another job and she will "keep me on the books" saying that I work at this facility for one month to help me with references for another job. Her reasoning for letting me go is that if I am not sure I want to be in the OR, why would they waste anymore time and money on training me? She then told me she thinks I'm very confused and I need to figure out what I want to do (duh I'm 21 and a new nurse!). She then preceeded to tell me that she's not even convinced that I love nursing at all! That really hurt, I was shocked that someone that barely knows me could make an assumption like that. I replied that that is really offensive and an unfair judgment to make. I just worked so hard through nursing school and have dedicated so much to this profession which I do absolutely love, I am still so shocked someone could say that. So I went back to my department crying my eyes out and some of my co-workers asked me what was wrong and I told them the story. They were shocked and outraged and said that they can't do this, it's not legal. In my facility you have to tell your manager if you are applying to another department, it is the policy. From what I understand, they can't terminate you for applying to another floor. People apply to other floors all the time and dont get the job, but they dont get terminated from their current position either. I am going to HR on monday to talk to them and see what my rights are. The director never gave me a pink slip either. I have never had a warning or have been in any negative situation in my OR. I have done very well in my student tech position, I'm pretty sure all of my co-workers like me and I really understand how the OR works and I was finding my transition into a circulating nurse rather smooth. I feel so shocked that I just got terminated from my first nursing job, I just can't believe it. The job market in my state for nurses is very limited right now, especially for new grads. I know I am going to have a hard time finding a new one. I do love my job in the OR, as a new grad I think I just went through a period of confusion with alot of people telling me that new grads need to do med-surg before specializing. My question to you is have you ever heard of a situation like this? Is this illegal? And should I fight to get my job back or should I just cut my losses and start looking for a new one (I dont really want to do this, but I am scared if i get my job back, management will make my life hell)? Sorry this is so long, and I appreciate any and all suggestions.

Thank you!

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

I agree with your co workers, just show up and work. It sounds like they were counseling you. Do the best job you can do.

If they say you are terminated, I would ask for it in writing.

[Jolie, BSN]

After re-reading your posts, a few things stand out to me:

1. You weren't terminated for applying for another position. You were terminated for sending the message that you weren't committed to your OR position, for which your employer spent a great deal of time, money and effort to prepare you. They weren't willing to risk another dime, and frankly, I don't blame them. Managers barely have enough money in their budgets to meet payroll expenses. They don't have enough to give questionable employees second chances. While that may sound harsh, it is reality.

2. "My nurse educator took it upon herself to tell our assistant manager and our director..." You seem to be upset that the nurse educator shared your discussion with other leadership people. Why? As a member of the leadership team of your department, it is her responsibility to share pertinent information with the acting manager and director. If you wanted confidentiality, you should have spoken to your mom or your best friend, not a department administrator, whose duty is to the best interests of the institution, not to any individual employee.

3. "She informed me that I didn't get the job on the floor and that Monday would be my last day in the OR. She suggested that I use any PTO time I have to look for another job and she will "keep me on the books" saying that I work at this facility for one month to help me with references for another job." "After talking to some of my co-workers I realized that I didn't technically get terminated." I'm not sure where you or your co-workers got the idea that you weren't technically terminated. Your superior clearly stated when your last day in the OR will be, and you have no other job lined up with this institution. You are terminated. She is being gracious enough to "keep you on the books" which allows you to apply for other in-house positions as an existing employee and to create the appearance for the next month to other prospective employers that you have a job. That's it. If you continue to show up on the unit as though you belong there, you will likely be shown the door by security and lose the good graces of the leadership personel whose references you need to land another job. Bad plan. If you need further clarification of your situation, please request a meeting with the leadership team of your department and conduct yourself professionally. It's your last best hope.

[rn4ever?]

I am sorry all these happened to you---but welcome to the real world of nursing! I think with this experience, a couple of things could be learned. First, be careful about sharing information at work-----your co-workers and superiors don't always have your best interest. Second, you don't need to think out loud at work. And third, don't just trust anyone. I cannot offer legal advise. But I believe that if it's employment-at-will, you can quit any time, and the employer can terminate you any time too. When the OR Director told you that she would never be able to work in the OR, didn't it occur to you that she might have just been fishing for information from you-----or for negative things you had to say about working in the OR? It is sad that there are very many things that are not taught in school and written in books, but that is harsh reality. I hope things can get sorted out soon for you. Talk to the Director and ask your questions straightforwardly-----rather than share your story with your co-workers and solicit for their opinion. Afterall, it's the Director who has the final say.

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

If you live in an at-will employment state, it's legal. Either party can end the employment whenever they want: they don't have to have a reason to fire you any more than you have to have a reason to resign. It goes without saying that they can't fire you because of your age/gender/ethnicity/etc...but they can just say, "sorry, we don't need you anymore" and leave the reason at that--and the burden would be on you if you wanted to dispute its legality.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this and I hope things work out for you.

[aromarn]

Not a good experience, but it seems like you are not terminated offically yet. So keep proving your self.

Unfortunately your story should be a lesson to the rest of us. Especially those of us who are a new grad and looking for a job. As for me, I am looking to get into any possible position that any one could offer me, so even if I think some areas are more boring than others, I would keep my mouth shut and learn. Once you got the job, and they are training you, you should not have make a sound about your confusion. You should have waited!!!

But , just because you let your confusion known, you should not be fired! Just be honest, you love nursing and the OR , but you are exploring other areas to develop your skills and to become a multifunctional nurse. Since you said your coworkers loved you , you should start a petition of signature in support of your stay...If worst comes first.

But , it sounds like , like you said to force you to resign. so take care

[Triage24]

If they have not terminated you continue to show up and work. Most states will not allow you to collect unemployment if you quit. What you are describing is a case where they want you to resign by intimidation or coercion. This will allow the hospital to be off the hook for any unemployment. You have no control over whether they terminate you or not. But do not under any circumstances resign unless you have another job waiting on you. This is the oldest HR trick in the book.

Please know that you did yourself no favors by trying to leave a department during orientation. This puts a chain of events in motion that is hard to stop. The director tells the DON or CNO whichever one you have and a decision is made on your future. HR is notified and it's cheaper to let you go than to keep you. Of course it's easier if you resign in their view than to be terminated.

Ball is in your court. This is why you don't resign. Make them terminate you or let your work. Make it their decision and choice. In the meantime look for another job and conduct yourself in a professional manner at all times.

Good luck to you.

[greenfiremajick]

Its almost as if they are trying to force me to resign. I never got a pink slip or any paper work. I got advice from one of my coworkers who has been in this OR for 30 something years that I should keep showing up to work since I am on the schedule and not technically terminated. And also have a meeting with the director, manager, and educator and prove to them that I really want to be there.

Wow, this could get really interesting. Please keep us updated. I'm rooting for you to come out of this a stronger/wiser employee and as a nurse!

[DMCRN]

Thank you for the responses...I now understand the mistakes I made and that I shouldve just kept my mouth shut if I had any reservations. Its hard as a new grad to know who to talk to and what you can say. Its not easy specializing in an area such as the OR thats so different from any other department as a new grad, i think its probably normal to be confused- but i know that means nothing to management.I am going to HR first thing Monday morning. Im so confused about the situation but I will keep everyone updated on what happens.

[Eiano]

Its hard as a new grad to know who to talk to and what you can say.

Diana I want to thank you for sharing your story with us, because this reinforces the fact to me, that the answer to your rhetorical phrase is "NOONE" and "NOTHING".... especially if you are having doubts. I'll make sure I learn from you.

[DMCRN]

Just to update everyone- I was forced to resign, the reasoning being that my director isn't convinced of my commitment to the OR. I did talk to HR and they said although it isn't the right thing to do and she would push for me to get my job back, there are no policies against management forcing me to resign. On the bright side, I haven't been fired and I will be kept on the books for 30 days so I can find a new job more easily. I think in the long run this situation will make me a better nurse, because when I do get a new job I will be more appreciative of it- and will hopefully be on a floor where I will get alot of experience. Let this be a lesson to everyone, if you are having doubts about your job, keep it to yourself!