mandatory overtime

mattsmom81 · May 18, 2002

I agree Heather...they call and hound part timers and PRN to try to guilt them into doing extra even more than the fulltimers.

My best friend works 2 12's a week and it's perfect for her...she has grade school kids and works around their needs....those XX00!**# supervisors get very rude to her..."You NEVER work extra and your managers notice these things...."I know the supes are tired of calling and hounding for help and they don't have decision making in hiring, but why do they have to get nasty about it?

I learned fast...caller ID and a well trained family who knows NEVER to pick up a call from Mom's hospital. :)

ceecel.dee, MSN, RN · May 18, 2002

I think it would destroy morale. Better to close that unit to more admissions than force OT.

Maybe you should sweeten the $$ received for OT to double time and than maybe you'd get more sign ups for extra help for those needing/wanting the money.

nell · May 18, 2002

I'd been nursing 12 years and I'd never heard of Mandatory OT 'till I was told one day that the three of us with the least seniority would have to do a double-shift. My 8yr old was already a latch-key kid until 5:30pm(long commute), I couldn't imagine leaving him alone until 12:30am! Fortunately someone volunteered so I didn't have to stay, but I turned in my notice the very next day. I won't work for a facility that has MOT, even tho my kid is now 23!

Stormy · May 21, 2002

Just a different slant on the PT and OT issue. I have many part-timers who come to me wanting to pick up more shifts - on their terms - and I must refuse because they would be working on one of their scheduled days of rest that would be OT. They are quite frustrated that their flexibility is limited by this clause in their contract, and many have looked to work in different facilities so they can work more than full time hours.

Many PT'ers want the OT - but they like it on their terms. From a management perspective, no one should have to work OT and all efforts should be made to avoid it. In unionized facilities, the union makes the rules about OT, and we need to abide by it - unfortunately, some PT'ers aren't happy about it.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · May 21, 2002

I do not have young children.

I do not have a husband/SO to come home to.

I frequently work extra hours of my own volition.

I spend plenty of time on-call for no extra pay.

My coworkers ocasionally call me at home to ask questions and I don't mind it at all.

I have been called in and worked during crisis times and stayed over during ice storms.

But the day that someone tells me that I "must" stay to workover, because management can't staff adequately, is the day I find a new job. No excuses!!!!!

cargal · May 21, 2002

Originally posted by mattsmom81
I agree Heather...they call and hound part timers and PRN to try to guilt them into doing extra even more than the fulltimers.

My best friend works 2 12's a week and it's perfect for her...she has grade school kids and works around their needs....those XX00!**# supervisors get very rude to her..."You NEVER work extra and your managers notice these things...."I know the supes are tired of calling and hounding for help and they don't have decision making in hiring, but why do they have to get nasty about it?

I learned fast...caller ID and a well trained family who knows NEVER to pick up a call from Mom's hospital. :)

I feel what one does outside the facility is their business. I am trying to start my own business on my days off (PT). I don't want to explain to anyone my plan or my reasons why I don't work more. Staffing is management's job, not my worry.

There are a number of nurses and cna's at my facility that commonly work double shifts for the money-time and a half over 8 hrs. Management loves them and thinks they are real troopers and that all should be willing and able to do this, but I know my limitations- and that is eight hours with no explanation necessary to anyone!

Agreed- MOT is the primary reason that nurses leave the profession- a knife in the wound.

nursesearl, BSN, RN · May 21, 2002

Hi Patty, I hope you're passionate about this subject! Overtime is bad enough but mandatory ot stinks! See you in class Wed. Lynn

PhantomRN · May 21, 2002

Stormy, So if your Part-timers want hours why dont they go full-time? Could it be that they want to work 24 hours and get time and half for anything over that...while at the same time we have many nurses doing 40---all on straight time.

Stormy · May 21, 2002

None of the PT'ers want to work a FT schedule. They like the flexibility of a part-time schedule picking up when and where (and if) they choose. It works great for most of them.

Most people don't really want the OT, just flexibility of working when they choose.

SmilingBluEyes · May 21, 2002

NOOOPE no mandatory overtime for me. If it ever came to that, it would be "hasta la bye bye" as my FAMILY is NUMBER ONE and always will be. I will NOT let a "job" that does not pay nearly enuf for that kind of headache to stress me out that way. Plus, it would cost me my precious family time and quite possibly, my health. I have only one life to live and only "so long" to raise my kids, IYKWIM!

With the nursing shortage as bad as it is now, and projected to worsen deeply in the next 10 to 20 years, there will have to be a better way to deal with short staffing! The suits are gonna HAVE to listen to nurses and what it will take to fill their shortages, or we all suffer dire consequences. As everyone knows, people are leaving in droves, either by retiring or in disgust, to other career fields. And mandatory overtime will fly like the proverbial*lead balloon* with the 20-something generation, who by the way, are EXACTLY who we NEED in our ranks.

Nooope, no FORCED overtime for ME! ( a 30-something who is unwilling to sacrifice my life for anyone who mandates overtime ----did that long enuf in the military!)

-jt · May 22, 2002

<... never work extra and your managers notice these things....>

What is that threat supposed to mean? If she works in a merit raise system, she can forget about meriting any raise that year? Was picking up extra shifts one of the employment conditions the nurse agreed to when she was hired??? If not, how dare they coerce people with a threat like that. Nurses are putting an end to mandatory ot by getting state laws passed to force the employers to stop it. Heres the info on the one pending in NY:

NYSNA Practice and Governmental Affairs: Supported Legislation

A.7127 (Nolan/Cahill); S.3515 (Morahan)

AN ACT to amend the labor law, in relation to limiting consecutive hours of work by nurses.

The New York State Nurses Association supports the above-referenced bill introduced at our request. This bill would prohibit health care employers from requiring a registered professional nurse or a licensed practical nurse to remain on duty beyond their usually scheduled shift. Registered nurses are the caregivers who are responsible for continuously overseeing the condition of hospital patients. They must be properly rested to capably perform their vital role.

This bill calls for a "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy - unless there is a declared emergency, as defined in the bill, no RN or LPN can be required to work past a normally scheduled shift.

This bill does not prohibit nurses from using their professional judgment to volunteer for additional hours based on their capabilities.

Working excessive hours within a 24-hour period and within a work week poses a risk to patients. The Institute of Medicine has been studying medical errors and recommends system changes to reduce and prevent patient harm.

A prohibition on mandatory overtime is an essential system change.

Abuses of mandatory overtime have escalated. This problem creates an ethical, professional and personal dilemma. The nursing profession's code of conduct and licensure regulations prohibit nurses from abandoning their patients. A nurse who left duty without a replacement can be cited for unprofessional conduct. Yet, if the nurse is so tired that safe care cannot be assured, the same rules of professional conduct require that the nurse notify the employer that a replacement must be found. At the end of a shift, the nurse must be able to transfer responsibility for patients to another competent nurse.

Management must take responsibility for filling staff vacancies within their institution, regardless of the reason they occur. Vacancies can be due to planned time off such as scheduled breaks and vacations, or unplanned events such as staff sick calls. Management must be held accountable for recruiting and retaining sufficient staff to ensure that vacant positions can be filled without a reliance on mandated overtime.

Mandatory overtime creates a tremendous burden on nurses who are primary care providers for family members. Working overtime without notice leaves little opportunity to make arrangements to care for children or other dependents. Nurses face the impossible decision of choosing between abandoning their patients or neglecting their children.

The legislation also states that a nurse's refusal to accept a mandatory overtime assignment, as prohibited under this bill, will not be grounds for a professional licensure disciplinary action. The language does not diminish the current regulations related to patient abandonment for other circumstances.

Employer reliance on mandatory overtime to fill staffing gaps creates unsafe and unsatisfying working conditions. Such conditions are a contributing factor to the emerging nursing shortage. Registered nurses who voluntarily leave the profession cite mandatory overtime as a significant reason for their decision.

Eliminating an employer's ability to schedule mandatory overtime will promote quality patient care and encourage nurses to remain or return to direct care.

NYSNA strongly urges the prohibition on employer use of mandatory overtime as outlined in this bill.

Bills currently in the Senate and Assembly:

Establishing Safe Staffing Guidelines

A.9073-B (Gottfried), S.4779 (Hannon) - Establishes safe staffing standards in hospitals, nursing homes and other healthcare settings.

Prohibiting Mandatory Overtime

A.7127 (Nolan), A.9731 (Barra), S.3515 (Morahan) - Prohibits employers from requiring nurses to work beyond their regularly scheduled shifts.

http://www.nysna.org

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