LPNs in ICU

Nurses General Nursing

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Our hospital recently brought LPNs into ICU, and we are having some trouble adjusting to the change. They were brought in to our units because we have lost so many RNs recently, and have not been able to replace them. Please don't think I am putting LPNS down, I am not. I was an LPN for four years before I was an RN, and I have a great deal of respect for them. The two that have come in to the unit are sweet wonderful girls with a lot of knowledge and they work very hard. The real problem is the limitations placed on them In our state LPNs are not allowed to give IV pushes, hang blood, or hang and titrate drips. They cannot measure hemodynamics, and cannot take verbal orders from a physician. So an RN must do all of these tasks for them, as well as take on a full patient load of her own. The LPNs get very frustrated too when they need something done for their patient and the RN who is supposed to be covering her can't get away from her own patient to handle a problem. We have tried to have an LPN and an RN share four patients, with the LPN doing meds and treatments, and the RN doing assessments, drips and the like, but this has not worked out either. To make matters worse, some of the RNs are hostile to the LPNs, and give them a hard time. Most of us have been supportive of them, but a small number of the RNs have made things difficult in numerous ways. Most of it is very subtle, and is difficult to take anything specific to our unit manager. A few of the docs have also expressed discomfort with the LPNs being in a critical care area. Again, I am not complaining about the LPNs, I am just looking for some feedback and advise on ways to organize care and make this situation a little easier on everyone.

Hey, I was talking about the training of lpns where I live and they are not trained to handle critical patients. I cannot speak for the entire U.S. nor was I trying to. But it's a mute point. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

agree to disagree love to all

RNinICU, CYA to the max.

wow back up, now there was a blanket comment made about that offended me my prob the POINT I was trying to make is that yes I am an LPN and yes my training is critical care. I dont dispute that ,and have stated in many previous post that as an LPN I want a good RN to have my back HELLO. Most people LPNs and RNs know their limitations what their strenghts and weaknesses are, I do, Just dont count me out because I am an LPN, read all my post do not just pick out one statement and go from there with it deal,like you I do not usually get my feathers ruffled however that statment about I would want an LPN caring for my mother got to me because that is what I do.

Oh, for crying out loud already.

stressedlpn, I wasn't referring to your posts.

Specializes in Everything except surgery.
Originally posted by mattsmom81

Please LPN posters who are offended....read what RNinICU is saying!

Those of you LPN's who are critical care nurses ...Brownie and Stressedlpn.....would YOU want to be liable for 4 patients in a real ICU?? (We're NOT talking about a Tele unit)

With the state and facility restrictions in RNinICU's state that is what she is afraid will happen legally....and I don't blame her.... let's all try to share opinions without feeling offended, so we can all get along.

Hey mattsmom...I heard your call...but finally awake now...:chuckle:!

Ok...let me say...this! NO I would NOT want to be liable for FOUR pts. in a critical care unit, with LPNs who have their hands tied behind their backs, or who are inexperienced in critical care!

I totally feel for RNinICU!! I also feel for those LPNs who allowed themselves to be put in that situation! I would never want to work in an area...where I couldn't do half the skills needed to care for the pts! BUT...I also feel that those RN bullies who are being nasty to those LPNs working in her unit....should get their priorities straight, and take out their fustration out on the powers that be!!! But of course bullies are always cowards....and never have the nerve to really deal with those who have more power than they do!! Sad situation...indeed!

I appauld LasVegasRN...for her unit being able to find a workable solution to the same situation...but "I" wouldn't want to be the LPN or RN in that situation!

For those who don't know me...I started out in NICU ..and later transitioned to working ICU/CCUs, and Trauma ER. So I know what can happen ... and just how quickly it can happen! I have been in units where more than ONE pt. started circling the drain! Fortunatley.... I have been blessed never to have had to code one of my own pts. But it would be pretty scary...if an RN is pulled away from direct supervision of the LPNs she is working with...while coding one, and God forbide...have another one of the four she/he is assigned to start going down hill also..:eek:!!!

If the LPNs in the unit...aren't critical care nurses, who have the knowledge, and ability to completely care for the pts in that unit... or restricted from doing so.....then they .. shouldn't be there!!! That's my 0.04 cents worth...:cool:

Why can't LPN's be utilized as helpers rather than having assignments they can't fully care for? It would be great if RN's had no more than 2 pts each and an LPN or 2 floating to assist all the RN's on the floor. That way RN's aren't expected to stretch dangerously thin ......

Originally posted by Furball

Why can't LPN's be utilized as helpers rather than having assignments they can't fully care for? It would be great if RN's had no more than 2 pts each and an LPN or 2 floating to assist all the RN's on the floor. That way RN's aren't expected to stretch dangerously thin ......

This suggestion was made, and the LPNs thought they would end up being "glorified aides," so it wasn't tried. And, to tell you the truth, we don't have enough staff right now to do this. Every nurse in our unit has two and sometimes three patients. Making the LPNs helpers would increase the RN's patient load to at least three all of the time. We also tried to have a different RN cover each of the LPN's patients, but they didn't like going to two different people, said it was too much of a hassle. So the duty has fallen back onto the charge nurse.

Specializes in Everything except surgery.

RNinICU...this is a very bad situation all around! What kinds of pts. are the LPNs given, and what is the background of those working in the unit? What state are you in? Are the restrictions placed on the LPNs required by the state, or the hospital? :confused:

~ sigh ~ LPN's in ICU can work. Takes a lot of trust and mutual respect.

Thanks Brownie for seeing the predicament RN in ICU is in! I knew we could count on you to understand!!!

This isn't really about RN vs LPN......and I think the comments from RN's like"I wouldn't be comfortable with an LPN in ICU..." arecoming from THEIR experience, and the restrictions of LPN's practice they have worked with in their areas.

The real concern is the responsibility level assumed by the RN when LPN's do NOT have ICU training, and are NOT 'allowed' to do ICU work!!!

I would not want to be responsible for the care of 4 acute ICU patients today...IMHO that is a ridiculous assumption of liability, and dangerous to today's ICU patients. Those of you who are ICU nurses: reread RNinICU's patient load description again please.

Las Vegas, gotta disagree with your comment completely...this is not about how bad you WANT it to work at all. Luv ya anyway. :)

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