How did she/he get through nursing school?

Nurses General Nursing

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I have more than one coworker that I'm amazed that they got through school. I really like them, but marvel at their cluelessness. These are not new nurses, to say the least.

I can relate.

I'm a non-traditional, 3rd career, nursing student.

This week we had a research paper due. We were given a choice of topics and two sources by the professor. Wanting to excel at the class and assignment I took it upon myself to research my thesis and the topic and generate 4 additional sources to cite in my paper.

I was docked nearly a full letter grade for this and I quote...

"I can appreciate your desire to explore additional source material to support your well developed analysis; however for the exam you should have used only the two I identified in the prompt."

NO WHERE in the printed assignment did it say to only use the two sources provided, and in fact my "well developed anaylsis" would have been impossible with out the additional cited sources. The professor simply didn't want to be bothered with reading the extra research material to make sure I was right.

Idiots. We have lazy idiots teaching classes.

Something similar happened to me in English Composition. My research paper was well supported and well written, but I didn't come to the "expected" conclusion, so I was docked a letter grade. It would have been much easier to write out the typical paper, but I get in creative moods once in a while. She couldn't tell me a single thing that was "wrong" with the paper, just that it gave her a "huge headache".

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
Something similar happened to me in English Composition. My research paper was well supported and well written, but I didn't come to the "expected" conclusion, so I was docked a letter grade. It would have been much easier to write out the typical paper, but I get in creative moods once in a while. She couldn't tell me a single thing that was "wrong" with the paper, just that it gave her a "huge headache".

Heh, remembering couple of undergrad and grad clinical papers when professors clearly had no idea what I was writing/talking about. In my head, patho, biochem and pharma represent a single continuum of a kind, so it took me some time to try to explain, in one case, that pH changes are part of inflammatory process... and she asked me in astonished voice "but what these letters mean - P and H?" She later claimed that she did not understand my accent to save her face :roflmao:

Granted, it was in undergrad. In grad, most professors looked conveniently other way when we cited Harrison's and other untouchables of Holy Nursing.

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Specializes in Med-Tele; ED; ICU.
I can relate.

I'm a non-traditional, 3rd career, nursing student.

This week we had a research paper due. We were given a choice of topics and two sources by the professor. Wanting to excel at the class and assignment I took it upon myself to research my thesis and the topic and generate 4 additional sources to cite in my paper.

I was docked nearly a full letter grade for this and I quote...

"I can appreciate your desire to explore additional source material to support your well developed analysis; however for the exam you should have used only the two I identified in the prompt."

NO WHERE in the printed assignment did it say to only use the two sources provided, and in fact my "well developed anaylsis" would have been impossible with out the additional cited sources. The professor simply didn't want to be bothered with reading the extra research material to make sure I was right.

Idiots. We have lazy idiots teaching classes.

"Hey, you!!! Get back in the box!!!"

Kinda reminds me of being in nursing school when the instructor, a grizzled ICU veteran, was trying to "show" me how to solve a math problem and was taking a circuitous route to the answer. I volunteered the obvious simplifications and was smacked down and had to let her laboriously progress to the obvious solution and then get a lecture about "listening." To her credit, she graciously took my reply when I pointed out the many years of applied math and problem solving entailed in my chemistry and engineering studies and professional work.

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Specializes in Med-Tele; ED; ICU.
Nursing school and actual nursing are very different animals. Plenty of people are great with books and tests but dangerous at any speed once they show up on the unit.

That they are... and nursing school and licensing is, IMO, sadly lacking in rigor.

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Specializes in Practice educator.

Failure to fail has a big part to play here. As an assessor I sometimes get to mark work from people I have limited interaction with, its much easier to fail these people than the students I mentored. You have these guys and girls following you around like a shadow and you feel like you get to know them far more personally and form a bond. Now stick them in a situation where you need to fail them, most often in person, and its far far harder (I have knowingly passed someone on a skill when they failed it, not in this role but in another, I regretted it then and I still do, you do no one a favour).

Some people are also able to wing it, while others are able to steamroll through people who make objections, I've seen it countless times in this office. Plus Universities are terrible at kicking people off courses, I don't know if it's a funding thing or whether they genuinely just want everyone to pass regardless.

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Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Honestly, I still wonder how did I make it through undergrad accounting for vicious antiintellectualism of some of my classmates, professors and colleagues.

Being smarter than the majority of people around you sucks, plain and simple. It doesn't make life and job any easier, and there's pretty much nothing to be done with it.

I don't know you so I wasn't sure whether this was serious or you were being facetious. Must be just awful to be so much more intelligent than the majority.

LOL!

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Plus Universities are terrible at kicking people off courses, I don't know if it's a funding thing or whether they genuinely just want everyone to pass regardless.

You see the same phenomenon right here on AN as well.

How often do we see students post, "I've got a 72 average (75 is passing), and I've failed two courses and the school is kicking me out of the nursing program. I feel they should give me another chance!"

And people will post agreeing they should get another chance?!? It boggles my mind. No, this person obviously has been given plenty of chances and doesn't have the intellectual or educational skills required to be in the healthcare field. Try hospitality management or something.

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Heh, remembering couple of undergrad and grad clinical papers when professors clearly had no idea what I was writing/talking about. In my head, patho, biochem and pharma represent a single continuum of a kind, so it took me some time to try to explain, in one case, that pH changes are part of inflammatory process... and she asked me in astonished voice "but what these letters mean - P and H?" She later claimed that she did not understand my accent to save her face :roflmao:

Granted, it was in undergrad. In grad, most professors looked conveniently other way when we cited Harrison's and other untouchables of Holy Nursing.

What is Harrison's? The textbook, or do you mean something else?

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What is Harrison's? The textbook, or do you mean something else?

Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine. A principle textbook for medical students and internists.

Although after the disclosure earlier this year that the author's had received over $11 million in undisclosed kickbacks from medical device and pharma manufacturers, severely throwing their impartiality into question, it will be interesting to see what happens.

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
What is Harrison's? The textbook, or do you mean something else?

Harrison's Internal Medicine. Holy Bible of the subject, pretty much the only one book you really need if

you are internist. It is vehemently hated by quite a few in nursing academia since it has, well, nothing at all to do with anything "nursing".

It is one of my favorite free time reads. Seriously.

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Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
I don't know you so I wasn't sure whether this was serious or you were being facetious. Must be just awful to be so much more intelligent than the majority.

LOL!

You know, I was darn serious when I wrote it down.

No bragging, it is really uncomfortable. And you're treated poorly for just being smart unless you chose career like my husband's, where only extremely smart survive.

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Failure to fail has a big part to play here. As an assessor I sometimes get to mark work from people I have limited interaction with, its much easier to fail these people than the students I mentored. You have these guys and girls following you around like a shadow and you feel like you get to know them far more personally and form a bond. Now stick them in a situation where you need to fail them, most often in person, and its far far harder (I have knowingly passed someone on a skill when they failed it, not in this role but in another, I regretted it then and I still do, you do no one a favour).

Some people are also able to wing it, while others are able to steamroll through people who make objections, I've seen it countless times in this office. Plus Universities are terrible at kicking people off courses, I don't know if it's a funding thing or whether they genuinely just want everyone to pass regardless.

I agree with this.

It wasn't until I became a manager of managers that I knew how much people struggle with holding others accountable. In part it's due to the work involved, stacking it on top of an already crammed day of deadlines and tasks as well as the concern of what it takes to replace that employee and how will their position be covered in the interim.

There's another reason behind the struggle though I believe.. have you ever let someone pass you who had their slip showing, zipper down, something kind of awkward and didn't say anything? Some of us don't have any problem going up to a stranger and letting them know they have a big piece of lettuce in their teeth but there are plenty who would struggle with that, or at least pause before they could. There is a big awkwardness in providing news another doesn't want to hear, even more so in informing someone that they are not meeting expectations and their job is at risk. Much easier to express frustration about it behind closed doors to a colleague than to bring someone in and professionally lay it out to them. It's just plain difficult.

Should a manager (or instructor) be able to have that skill set and be accountable to their own responsibility to carry out managing their staff? Absolutely. I don't think it's an inherent strength in nurses in general though and when ideally a nurse manager is also a good clinician with the capability to perform the jobs that they supervise and manage, having all of the acumen to also effectively manage people with good leadership methods as well as call out mediocre to poor performance and behaviors, that's a tall order.

That's my theory anyway.

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