Future of Nursing - page 4
I went back to school to earn my BSN. We have recently been talking about the future of nursing and where we are headed as a profession. One of the topics that was discussed was BSN prepared nurses... Read More
Oct 17, '01Joined: Jan '01; Posts: 79; Likes: 3Why do we continue to have this arguement regarding ADN vs. BSN. All you need to do is look at the facts. FACT 1. ADN graduates out score BSN graduates on the NCLEX-RN exam. FACT 2. ADN graduates are highly recruited by healthcare facilities around the nation. FACT 3. ADN programs include Developmental Psychology, Microbiology, Pharmacology, Health Assessment and many other courses. FACT 4. BSN education does not begin until the sophmore or junior year, thus the first one to two years is general education. FACT 5. Humanities and liberal arts courses does not make one a good nurse. FACT 6. If you want to increase the nursing shortage make the entry into practice the BSN. FACT 7. ADN programs have an increase in qualified applicants to the programs, as opposed to a dramatic decrease in applications to BSN programs. Wonder if this is a reason to "open this can of worms?" FACT 8. Just because you have a BSN does not make you a better nurse. Everything I learned about entry level nursing was learned at the ADN level. FACT 9. Many people cannot afford a traditional four year degree, therefore individuals opt for quality education at the local Community College. FACT 10. ADN nurses have been around for almost 50 years and will be around for another 50 years. You cannot argue with SUCCESS!
Oct 17, '01Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 974; Likes: 52wow.....hard to argue those facts.
i dont see this as much an argument as it is a discussion.
no need for flaming if you are secure in what you do. this has been a fun thread and ive enjoyed the debate.
NO EDUCATION IS A WASTE!
not even anthropology...lol
Oct 18, '01Occupation: RN-i (RETIRED) Specialty: ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89 ; From: US ; Joined: May '00; Posts: 14,479; Likes: 2,298Good points all. When I started a BS was two years at university and then 3 years in the medical college nursing program...so 5 years....degree and take boards for RN. Totally different education.....no over lap. Two years college, three years nursing school.
There were also the 3 year nurses right alongside the BS nurses who didn't go for the degree. Side by side, dorm room by dorm room....only the uniform color was different. About 1964 or so we started hearing about the "new" programs that would spit out nurses in only two years.......we were naturally aghast! Two years! What kind of education was that?
That was the party line from the academics, I'll tell you ....the nurses "spit out" were fantastic....they were folks on a crusade...they WANTED to get the AD diploma and get to the task of BEING nurses. And they made FINE nurses....no difference......not better, and certainly not worse.
I never did figure out what political science and anthropology had to do with nursing....made no sense then, makes none now. I learned some "intriguing" facts.....but I have absorbed a LOT more by getting out there in the trenches.
Psych made a little more sense except I had 4 courses taught by the same professor who used the SAME words....word for word....in each of the 4 classes....oh well I got 12 hours out of that.
Classroom "larnin'" just cannot compare with LIFE time learning.
Someday theyre going to push through a minimum entry level degree....probably a BS...but what would happen if they suggested an MS ? Hmmmmm. Let's make it an MS and the rest of these nurses can be technical nurses.....we will "grandfather" some of them but the rest.......
Please dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. Every semester I see this same question come up....usually from BS students and bless them.....they are only repeating the assignment.....But it's not a real arguement........and we ARE a real profession and don't let ANY ivory towered teacher tell you otherwise. WE ARE NURSES!
But be grateful to those nurses out there NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE EDUCATED...they are keeping the lamp lit...they're maintaining a PROFESSION and they are darned good at being NURSES.
OK spiel done. Go about your business (<----Star Wars IV reference-remember Obi Wan talking to the...........oh well).Last edit by P_RN on Oct 18, '01
Oct 18, '01Occupation: RN pacu CPAN Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Critical Care,Recovery, ED ; From: US ; Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 1,136; Likes: 722Same question was asked of me over thirty years ago and the answer is still the same.
YES! The BSN should be minimum entry level degree.
Oct 19, '01Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 3I have read all that you have been saying about the status of nursing in America, just out of interest, what is being done to further the cause over there.
Currently in Australia there are state by state strikes going on where nurses are only treating emergency patients.
Now while striking may not be in the best interests of our patients, the government is being forced to address the issues that are affecting the profession. These issues currently stand as being - better pay and safer working conditions.
Oct 19, '01Occupation: RN Cardiac Investigations Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 45Didn't know I was striking in Queensland...better read the papers!
Oct 19, '01Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 3Sorry Dyno,
the last i heard Qld, Vic and NSW were striking. My mistake
Oct 19, '01Occupation: RN Cardiac Investigations Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 45Thats ok Mooshie.. yes better pay & safer working conditions combined with how to entice young people into the profession.
Highlighting the positives of nursing & giving it 'street cred' are ongoing challenges.
I'm glad we don't have the confusion of 2 or 4 year programmes here. An RN is an RN, all have Bachelor of Nursing Degrees as a minimum.
Oct 24, '01Occupation: registered nurse Joined: May '01; Posts: 40The current system offers a 3 way entry into nursing (diploma, ADN or BSN,) I see this as an asset rather than a liability. Our profession has career path options that none other has. A 4-5 year BSN program may work well for an 18 year old just leaving home and able to devote the time to preparing for her career, but an 18 year old mother of 2 probably doesn't have the time or energy. Either may be great nurses, but their previous choices and current responsibilites dictate their educational options. I think it is great that our profession is flexable in this way.
As we all know so well, we all smart, motivated, and hard working, we all take and pass the same state boards. We all know BSN's, ADN's and diploma grads, who are good nurses and lousey nurses.
Oct 24, '01Occupation: Clinical Leader Specialty: ER, Hospice, CCU, PCU ; Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 799; Likes: 51Well said Rosy
Oct 24, '01Occupation: Nursing Mgmt. Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 1,024; Likes: 20I'm a RN/DON with ASN from a 3 year program which required most of the required studies for the BSN. After experiencing Corporate Manuvering too cut cost and increase $, I've decided to go with the Bachelors of Arts in Healthcare Administration which the University I plan to attend says I only need 30 or less hours and if I CLEP(life-time experience), it would be much less.
My point is, I've been in nursing 24+ years, only have my ASN and have found that it's not what degree you have but applying what you've learned. When taking the NCLEX, it doesn't matter what degree you have , only that you have the knowledge. Diploma,ADN,ASN,BSN,MSN,etc...it doesn't matter. What matters is UNITY!!!
1st. Forget about what degree the other has, if they are liscensed.
2nd. Promote Unity at the work-place.
3rd. Get more involved through nursing sites, publications, doctors, get their backing. They wouldn't be here w/o us.
4th. Alumnus, Speak Up! Contact the nursing director, get input.
5th. Write or call your elected officals; all have email addresses.
6th. We all need to organize then implement.
We are all professionals and deserve no-less. Believe it or not, it's already started with the shortages to our benefit if we UNITE!
Oct 24, '01Occupation: critical care Specialty: 2 year(s) of experience in critical care ; Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 469; Likes: 8I haven't figured out how to quote yet so here's my memory's best: "Fact: Requiring a minimum of BSN will increase the nursing shortage."
I considered nursing a few years ago but I thought the training would be too long. I didn't realize it was only two or four years. It wasn't until my OB nurse told me that I could be a RN in two years that I decided to do it. So here I am with a one year old trying to get my ADN. I will finally start the actual nurse training after taking prerequisites for 4 semesters. I wouldn't have changed my major to nursing if it was required that I get a BSN right away. I will get it eventually, I hope, just because I want it.
Oct 26, '01Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 15; Likes: 2I did a 3 year diploma program (in Canada) through a teaching hospital. The amount of practical training was and is what sets the RN andBN programs apart. I worked with some BN students who were covering in their last year what I learnt in my first. They were scared.
Nobody can replace the practical side of nursing. Here in Ontario, they are changing to BN requirement for students. I worry that the program won't be so good. Anybody can learn what is in a book, can they do it at the bedside? Being a degree nurse does not make you a better nurse. I feel that in order to progress in our profession, we must have a degree (SORRY).
However, the BN programs will not gain more respect for the profession. We will continue to be respected, not for our education, but for the quality of care we give our patients.
Now I am going to run away also!!!