Future of Nursing

kaycee · Oct 17, 2001

Just wanted to say, I think there has been very intelligent ideas expressed here. Everyone has the same goal, just different ways to get there.

There has been no flaming just good old fashion discussion and sharing. Bravo!

nightingale, RN · Oct 17, 2001

yes.. Bravo on the ideas and sapport form the group...

My opinion and from which side of the fence I stand on.....

First an ADN, 2 year program on the 5 year plan. I worked my but off and was VERY proud of the hard work I put in. I went to an excellent and demanding program.

Just finished by BSN on the 3 year plan. I am VERY proud of the hard work I put in and think it was VERY worthwhile. Did it make me better at the bedside? Skills were not additionally learned but the theoretical knowledge improved my assessment base of knowledge.

I agree this is a difficult time to demand more of the nurse profession. To earn the minimum requirements for taking the boards we still have to pass that grueling NCLEX exam.

I know of many nurses who would have not made it through a four year program. There are many non-traditional students who walk through the doors of nursing college. Not only the time factor, but quite frankly, community college was much less expensive to take on.

I strongly agree... we need a united voice... I stand proud to be called a nurse. I know we are the butt (excuse the punn) of a lot of jokes... I do not tolerate them or allow them to be laughed at when I am staning around.

How can we unite? Yes, one way is to organize or unionize. We do have the ANA, but we all know how low the participation is with that.

What other solutions could we come up with? Any ideas???

:confused: B

kimtab · Oct 17, 2001

A Bachelor's Degree doesn't automatically confer respect and recognition upon you in your chosen field- be it Nursing or anything else. However, since it's hard to get a job stocking the dairy aisle at the supermarket anymore without a Degree on your resume, I do believe Nursing will eventually head that way as many other professions have. I don't think it will make any difference in the pay or the working conditions or how nurses are perceived by the public. I do think it will cut a large number of potential Nurses out of the pool though.

I would be one of them. I am going back to school for my ADN. I already have one Bachelor's Degree, but even so- the extra credits involved in a BSN would make it impossible to me to complete. I am a single Mom and I work Full-time to support my family. No time for Anthropology I'm afraid:) Based on the posts I read here, people like myself are a significant percentage of people entering Nursing. Nursing seems to have an attraction for older, non-traditional students starting second careers.

I do hope to complete my BSN some day. I want to be a CNM and thus will have to complete the BSN and MSN. Will I be able to do it? Don't know. Right now I am thankful that I can get the education that I need, that is directly pertinent to my chosen profession, in a 2-year ADN degree.

As far how useful that extra education really is...I have to say that I learned a lot in college as far as communicating, critical thinking skills, etc. But I have learned far more in my years in the working world. For my money, experience is still the best teacher.

Kim

pama · Oct 17, 2001

Why do we continue to have this arguement regarding ADN vs. BSN. All you need to do is look at the facts. FACT 1. ADN graduates out score BSN graduates on the NCLEX-RN exam. FACT 2. ADN graduates are highly recruited by healthcare facilities around the nation. FACT 3. ADN programs include Developmental Psychology, Microbiology, Pharmacology, Health Assessment and many other courses. FACT 4. BSN education does not begin until the sophmore or junior year, thus the first one to two years is general education. FACT 5. Humanities and liberal arts courses does not make one a good nurse. FACT 6. If you want to increase the nursing shortage make the entry into practice the BSN. FACT 7. ADN programs have an increase in qualified applicants to the programs, as opposed to a dramatic decrease in applications to BSN programs. Wonder if this is a reason to "open this can of worms?" FACT 8. Just because you have a BSN does not make you a better nurse. Everything I learned about entry level nursing was learned at the ADN level. FACT 9. Many people cannot afford a traditional four year degree, therefore individuals opt for quality education at the local Community College. FACT 10. ADN nurses have been around for almost 50 years and will be around for another 50 years. You cannot argue with SUCCESS!

thisnurse · Oct 18, 2001

wow.....hard to argue those facts.

i dont see this as much an argument as it is a discussion.

no need for flaming if you are secure in what you do. this has been a fun thread and ive enjoyed the debate.

NO EDUCATION IS A WASTE!

not even anthropology...lol

P_RN, ADN, RN · Oct 18, 2001

Good points all. When I started a BS was two years at university and then 3 years in the medical college nursing program...so 5 years....degree and take boards for RN. Totally different education.....no over lap. Two years college, three years nursing school.

There were also the 3 year nurses right alongside the BS nurses who didn't go for the degree. Side by side, dorm room by dorm room....only the uniform color was different. About 1964 or so we started hearing about the "new" programs that would spit out nurses in only two years.......we were naturally aghast! Two years! What kind of education was that?

That was the party line from the academics, I'll tell you ....the nurses "spit out" were fantastic....they were folks on a crusade...they WANTED to get the AD diploma and get to the task of BEING nurses. And they made FINE nurses....no difference......not better, and certainly not worse.

I never did figure out what political science and anthropology had to do with nursing....made no sense then, makes none now. I learned some "intriguing" facts.....but I have absorbed a LOT more by getting out there in the trenches.

Psych made a little more sense except I had 4 courses taught by the same professor who used the SAME words....word for word....in each of the 4 classes....oh well I got 12 hours out of that.

Classroom "larnin'" just cannot compare with LIFE time learning.

Someday theyre going to push through a minimum entry level degree....probably a BS...but what would happen if they suggested an MS ? Hmmmmm. Let's make it an MS and the rest of these nurses can be technical nurses.....we will "grandfather" some of them but the rest.......

Please dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. Every semester I see this same question come up....usually from BS students and bless them.....they are only repeating the assignment.....But it's not a real arguement........and we ARE a real profession and don't let ANY ivory towered teacher tell you otherwise. WE ARE NURSES!

But be grateful to those nurses out there NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE EDUCATED...they are keeping the lamp lit...they're maintaining a PROFESSION and they are darned good at being NURSES.

OK spiel done. Go about your business (

OC_An Khe · Oct 18, 2001

Same question was asked of me over thirty years ago and the answer is still the same.

YES! The BSN should be minimum entry level degree.

Mooshie · Oct 19, 2001

I have read all that you have been saying about the status of nursing in America, just out of interest, what is being done to further the cause over there.

Currently in Australia there are state by state strikes going on where nurses are only treating emergency patients.

Now while striking may not be in the best interests of our patients, the government is being forced to address the issues that are affecting the profession. These issues currently stand as being - better pay and safer working conditions.

Just curious :)

Dyno · Oct 19, 2001

Didn't know I was striking in Queensland...better read the papers!

Mooshie · Oct 19, 2001

Sorry Dyno,

the last i heard Qld, Vic and NSW were striking. My mistake :)

Dyno · Oct 19, 2001

Thats ok Mooshie.. yes better pay & safer working conditions combined with how to entice young people into the profession.

Highlighting the positives of nursing & giving it 'street cred' are ongoing challenges.

I'm glad we don't have the confusion of 2 or 4 year programmes here. An RN is an RN, all have Bachelor of Nursing Degrees as a minimum.

rosy · Oct 24, 2001

The current system offers a 3 way entry into nursing (diploma, ADN or BSN,) I see this as an asset rather than a liability. Our profession has career path options that none other has. A 4-5 year BSN program may work well for an 18 year old just leaving home and able to devote the time to preparing for her career, but an 18 year old mother of 2 probably doesn't have the time or energy. Either may be great nurses, but their previous choices and current responsibilites dictate their educational options. I think it is great that our profession is flexable in this way.

As we all know so well, we all smart, motivated, and hard working, we all take and pass the same state boards. We all know BSN's, ADN's and diploma grads, who are good nurses and lousey nurses.