Future of Nursing

frustratedRN · Oct 13, 2001

you honestly think that by increasing education requirements for entry will add repspect to our profession?

you are taking for granted that the general public is aware of the nursing requirements. these are the same people who think that every male is a doctor and any female wearing any combination of white is a nurse.

you also believe that requiring a BSN will assist in giving us a unified voice?

you are taking for granted that every BSN benefits from their education. I know some BSN's that are dumb as a doorknob and so do you.

it seems to me that what you are saying is that we need more education in order for us to be paid what we are worth, as if the general public and administrations arent taking us seriously because we dont have a minimum degree requirement. so if we raise the requirements we will be able to legitimize our profession.

im sorry but this makes no sense to me.

i think just the opposite.

say right now an ADN makes 16 an hour and a BSN makes 18 an hour. i think if you raise the entry to BSN, all nurses are going to make 16 an hour.

while i agree with all the problems you stated, i dont agree that requiring a higher degree is the solution.

where i work i see the BSN's eating crap too. there is no more respect for their initials than any other.

essarge · Oct 13, 2001

Wow!! Talk about a can of worms being opened!!

OK...here comes my opinion.

1. NCLEX testing should reflect the amount of education...ie-Diploma, ADN, BSN, Masters-different difficulties for different degrees.

2. In order to renew a liscense, NCLEX should give a "refresher" exam to make sure that the nurse (again at different levels) is up to date with their skills and knowledge. This test would be on the same level as the "original" NCLEX".

3. Nurse practice acts should reflect educational standards, again, diploma, ADN, Bachelor's etc. and should be nation wide. Within these standards should be limits progressing up with more education.

4. Pay should reflect educational standards. Minimum wages should be set by the government for each educational level, thus taking the power away from the institutions and making FAIR pay for education, time in practice etc.

5. Eventually enact a law that makes a specific education degree as ENTRY LEVEL, again grandfathering in nurses already in practice. But this is ONLY after they have taken competency testing that shows they have kept up with the changing times in nursing.

OK....now my can is open!!:)

schmrock · Oct 13, 2001

Yes I honestly believe that by increasing the education requirements respect will follow. Do you think that the general public knows the requiements for other professions such as pharmacists, engineers, architects, and CEO's? The general public has a general idea of the what the requirements for a doctor are because the doctors have allowed that information to be public knowledge. Nurses have not done that. Nurses have not banded together and demanded respect from the general public. The general public doesn't take us seriuosly because nurses don't take themselves seriously.

I agree with essarge that the lNurse Practice Act needs to reflect educational standards and the licensing of nurses should be national as opposed to state regulated.

We as nurses need to join together and be one voice.

n2nursing · Oct 13, 2001

I'm currently an ADN student. I'm concerned that there are some who actually believe the BSN is going to enable better patient care. The patient care is established in the two year program. Also, as one person noted, the two years actually turns into four years because of pre-reqs. I'm looking into a four year college in my state now, for purposes of upgrading to a BSN. Much to my surprise, the four year program spends the first two years doing pre-reqs and the last two years on nursing courses. Does that really make that nurse any better educated? I don't think so. It just allows them more time to get there courses in and in the end they will hold a higher level degree.

I see both sides, because reality is "the alphabet soup" behind the name and title, ultimately is the pay raise; however, I hope people don't see that as being an automatic for a better trained nurse. We are getting our butts kicked in our ADN program. We just have less time to have that happen.

WashYaHands · Oct 14, 2001

I'm concerned that there are some who actually believe the BSN is going to enable better patient care.

This is where the original issue becomes muddied and flames start to be thrown.

Patient care is not the issue. Whether ADN, BSN, MSN, or DSN, there are very good nurses in all programs that provide excellent patient care. And, there are some at all levels who fall short.

The original post was related to whether or not the entry level education for an RN should be a BSN in an effort to promote nursing as a profession with one standardized educational level for entry.

No opinion either way from me at this time, I'm just trying to keep the focus on the original issue.

Linda

Dave123 · Oct 14, 2001

Well, before entry level educational RN standards can be set I think we need to standards set on nursing programs. Make them all the same. Every program wants something different as pre-reqs and even the program requirement credits are different. Just look at what college A wants and then what college B wants and what each will accept. I personally think its a $$ thing with them.

I am an ADN. The program I attended you needed to have a 2 year degree in something to even get in. I had one in aviation and one in history. So I had over 120 hours before I even applied to the ADN program and even then I had to take more to meet thier entry requirements. This is on top of the credits I earned when I was trained as an Army LPN, which is an extremely demanding course because military LPNs or 91Cs are often called on to do much more than a civilian trained LPNs.

What made me choose an ADN over a BSN? Because I worked FULL TIME in a busy ER already as a LPN, so time was a factor. The ADN program was very receptive to having me, where as the BSN program treated me like I was 18 years old with no experience or credits already. Plus I felt I like I didn't fit thier demographic RN profile.

As for getting my BSN, nope. I am actively applying to P.A. schools. My wife on the other hand is also an ADN and is almost done with her BSN. I know she is not impressed with the additional schooling she has done already as it applys toward overall nursing care.

Just my opinion

Dave

mercykitten · Oct 14, 2001

While I am new to posting, I have been following the BB here for quite some time.

On this subject regarding the future of nursing, I have to say "get real!"

With the major nursing crisis facing us and the country, we can't afford to start requiring more schooling for nurses. Guys, IT IS "RED ALERT"! All hands on deck! No time for some kind of inservice on the incidence of heart disease among Siberian natives (unless you live there).

Now, I do have my BSN. I firmly believe in it. Got mine from the beginning. But along the way I have learned from ADN, LPN and NAs. I believe that we can always learn something from most people.

If we really want to treated as professionals, a local judge recently told me, "nurses need to unionize." It is the only way to have a voice that hospital administrators can't ignore.

Don't you get tired of new requirements being made by people who haven't worked the floor in 20 years?

Well, I give you all a chance to reply to this.

:)

frustratedRN · Oct 14, 2001

how on earth would you propose nclex to reflect your education?

i thought nclex was for competency and your DEGREE was a reflection of your education.

thats absolutely right that doctors let it be known how much schooling they have, but that has nothing to do with their degrees. it has more to do with public relations. THATS WHAT WE NEED...BETTER PUBLIC RELATIONS AND YES ONE UNIFIED VOICE.

are you a better nurse than i am because you took anthropology or chemistry II? i dont think so.

sometimes life experiences are the best classrooms.

and i SURE AS HELL DONT WANT THE GOVERNMENT DECIDING HOW MUCH I MAKE.

the LESS involvement the government has the better off we are.

i cant even believe that someone suggested that. are we forgetting what happened when the clintons tried to "reform" healthcare?

im not even saying that we should/shouldnt let the BSN be the entry level. im just saying the reasons stated here are wrong and

that at this time this issue really should be tabled in favor of so many other issues of greater importance.

btw...thanks washya for posting the differences in the degrees. i wont need much to get my bsn since i have taken most of those courses as prerequisites.

KC CHICK · Oct 14, 2001

Well, seeing as how I just graduated last spring w/an ADN....you can guess how I feel about that program.

I believe that they teach an immense amount information to the students in those two years. None of our time was wasted on extra college courses that have nothing to do with nursing/patient care. Who needs Anthropology......really??

I am now a working RN that would have had to wait 2 more years had I decided to go for my BSN right away. Being a non-traditional 26 y/o student when I started, I fit in better with the ADN crowd then the 18 y/o traditional university crowd.

I do plan to continue w/my BSN either next summer or fall. I've already applied to UMKC and been accepted. Would be going now if it wasn't for the 9 months training I'm getting in the OR.

In the meantime, my fiance and I have been able to purchase two cars and a house because I'm not in school another 2 years with minimal income from a part-time job. Also, the hospital I work for does not pay a diff for a BSN. Everyone here gets the same $$$$$$. Which is fair......same work, same pay----how you get there is up to you.

As a response to n2nursing, the two year program SEEMS like it can stretch into 4 years w/prereqs. It can be done in two years if they are taken along w/nursing courses as I did. For example, my 1st semester was 18cr hrs w/A&P, Human Lifespan Development, Fundementals of NSG, and NSG concepts.

To essarge: I don't believe that RN's should have to retake the NCLEX every time they renew a license...unless, of course, you could take a test that fits into your specialty of nursing. What was on the NCLEX and what I'm learning in the OR are two completely different worlds!!! Of course, SOME of the knowledge I obtained in school applies......but there's a lot that doesn't. I also think that the first NCLEX invoked enough stress to last a lifetime. Who needs a new ulcer every couple of years??

peaceful2100, BSN, RN · Oct 14, 2001

Well adding my two cents in to the whole matter. I feel that right now at this point there should not be a minimum requirement. Why not you may ask? Well if the minimum requirements was raised to a BSN prepared nurse then the nursing shortage will really be in trouble considering there are more nurses getting their ADN's or Diplomas then there are nurses who currently have or getting their BSN's.

I am a BSN student and my cousin's wife is a ADN student. She is saying that the BSN students are taking more BS classes that are not needed. I personally feel that they are not needed but they are not BS classes they were really worth it to me and that is just my personal opinion. My cousin's wife said that at her program they don't do community nursing. Her program is not just two years due to pre-req's you have to have and the waiting list that there is for getting a seat in the ADN program.

I choose an BSN program because I was 18 when I started college. I am now 21 and in my junior year. I am a single mother living at home with my parents and I decided the best route for me would be the BSN because my parents were willing to help.

I also plan to go to graduate school and you need a BSN for the graduate school's I am looking at . I figured I minus well do it now.

I realize not everyone have the options to get their BSN's right away or have no desire to get their BSN's. I will never think I am better than anyone because I have a BSN nor do many who have their BSN's will think they are any better either. I think those who have their BSN's who think they are better than ADN's, Diploma nurses or LPNs are the expection not the rule and then again I can be wrong but that is not the impression I pick up on at my job. At my job I see a lot of team work between the various degree levels. I am just a nursing care assistant at my job and I feel respected by the nurses, nurse practitioner's and even MOST of the residents and Doctors. Everyone must decide on what's best for them.

Maybe in the future they can consider making the minimum requirment a BSN like Canada did. However, for the time being I don't think it is such a good idea until the shortage gets a little better. I am a little optimistic so what the future holds remain to be seen.

WashYaHands · Oct 14, 2001

None of our time was wasted on extra college courses that have nothing to do with nursing/patient care. Who needs Anthropology......really??

Actually, Cultural Anthropology is the study of cultures, not digging up bones. Cultural diversity has a lot to do with nursing and patient care especially in terms of cultural health and illness practices and beliefs of your patients.

I do agree with FrustratedRN and Peaceful. Right now we have many other issues of greater importance, particularly the nursing shortage. We need nurses. Any change in entry level requirements at this time will only make our current nursing shortage worse.

Linda

nur20 · Oct 14, 2001

JUST WANTED TO COMMENT ON YOUR NAME; LOVE IT !! WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF IT !!! THAT IS A #1 PHOBIA WITH ME, WASH YA HANDS.I DRIVE EVERYONE NUTS WITH IT!!!!!