Do nurses only "eat their young" in certain departments?

[HeartsOpenWide]

This semester we are on Med/Surg. At first I thought this "nurse eating young" thing was just something made up by overly sensitive students, until I floated to other departments. I have been is short stay, OR and the ICU and the nurses in there are SOOOOOOOOOOO nice compared to the nurses on M/S! One of the nurses in OR told me "I want the student nurses to enjoy their time in here so they will come and work here when they graduate". He spent tons of time with me; quizzing me a little things, showing me how to sterile gown-up, and told me the names of all the instruments he was setting up. In M/S however, I feel like I am a big pain in the orifice! I try at all cost not to bother the nurses in this department, but if I can not find my teacher and my client is in 9/10 pain an is allowed prn morphine and it is time (we need assistance/an observer) they sigh and act all put out. Its like, if I was not there there would be a number of other things they would have to add to their list of things to do because I am taking two of their five patients and doing everything for them (minus needing them or my teacher when available for I.V. push meds). I even say, "as soon as you get a chance can you watch me give such and such med".

Don't get me wrong, there are some that are nice, but the majority make me feel hated. The school tells us that students in the past have been hired as techs that have left an impression...but who would want to work with these people? Some even ignore you when you say good morning!

[Little Panda RN, ASN, RN]

I couldn't possibly agree more. In the cockpit of an airline the crew MUST get along and there is no room for b.s. because of what's at stake. The same is just as true on a nursing unit but some people just still don't get it.

I can't even believe the stuff I'm reading here. Or think I am reading.

Let me double check that I'm not misintrepreting:

1. If you expect professonal courtesy you need to get a backbone.

2. If you don't like being bullied, well, tough, you're a shrinking violet and don't belong in nursing.

3. If you paid your dues being eaten alive when you knew virtually nothing as a newbie and had no support or comfort zone, instead of helping others, it's your right to instill the same grief on them that you got.

This is what makes me think nurses are their own worst enemies.

As Sutton says in his book: Admitting you're an a.h. is the first step to recovery.

PS - and no, I'm not defending the types that want to throw an arm-flapping fit because someone looked at them wrong. But then that's not what we were ever talking about in this thread.

But good nurses are made, not born, folks.

:yeahthat:

[GeekyRN]

I wish I had time to read that book.

Let me begin by saying I do not under any circumstances advocate for nurses to develop thick skin and not be self-advocates in dealing with situations.

I do advocate choosing battles, because some aren't worth fighting. But if someone mistreats me, is rude or whatever, I'm not going to go running to Allnurses and cry "why do nurses eat their young and abuse each other". I'm going to confront the situation head on, deal with it, collaborate on a solution, or work my way up the chain of command or what ever. The point is I'll nip it in the bud and realize it's a situational thing and not loose any sleep over it precisely because I have think skin and can keep it in perspective without putting down my entire profession.

I'm not going to say "I need think skin and I'm going to ignore this jerk in front of me, nurses eat their young anyway, nurses are catty, nurses abuse each other, this is a horrible profession for that but I'm the rare exception".

There are times to leave jobs and places if it's just so bad. Nurses vote with their feet all the time.

The problem with that is, the people who are most likely to be bullied and abused ARE the newbie nurses on the unit (and/or in the profession) that DON'T have the resources to fight back successfully - they haven't got a support system, the faith of the clinical director, friends in the hospital etc to defend them. They probably don't have the experience to land several job offers in a few weeks either.

Voting with the feet unfortunately does happen all the time but it's a total waste of productivity, talent and investment. Dare I suggest that people GTFU and act like the white collar professionals they are.

[GeekyRN]

Anyway, as I was saying earlier, and then I'm done here, but that book Imentioned, that's out now Sutton's "The No A**hole factor" talks about the loss productivity and talent that workplace bullies cost industry - finds that even those ah's perceived as abrasive but stellar performers, are hurting productivity and the productivity of everyone else actually rises when they leave. Much more.

Underlying point: We all have to enforce 0 ah tolerance, not just management.

Anyway, the book is easy reading,not a big timesucker, and best of all , if you are trapped in a situation where you are working with one or more bullies, it helps you deal with it.

PS - and no, I'm not related to the author, an investor in the publishing house, etc.

[Cattitude]

I think we indeed have a choice about what we find offensive, and very much have it in our power to DO something proactive and assertive about it, rather than just remain offended.....

Just a random thought.

This is right on the mark. I remember reading a thread here once where a newb complained about another fairly new nurse yelling at her in front of coworkers and how embarrassed she was. I was waiting to see what action SHE took. NONE! She didn't even SAY anything to the other nurse. Uh, no way would I let any other nurse, especially another new nurse yell at me. That was a perfect situation to take control respectfully and nip that nonsense in the bud right there.

I see many threads where the "offended" party doesn't seem to do much of anything to try and correct the situation. Hello? Yes you do need to react in a positive way to let idiots know you will not tolerate being treated poorly!

1. If you expect professonal courtesy you need to get a backbone.

2. If you don't like being bullied, well, tough, you're a shrinking violet and don't belong in nursing.

3. If you paid your dues being eaten alive when you knew virtually nothing as a newbie and had no support or comfort zone, instead of helping others, it's your right to instill the same grief on them that you got.

.

I guess this is your view of what was was expressed here, it's not mine. Everyone is going to read posts and take them a bit differently. I think that nursing is not for the faint hearted and that if someone is being treated poorly they SHOULD stand up for themselves. I see nothing wrong with that. No I don't think they should get out of nursing but maybe they need to re-think the area of nursing they are in if it is causing them grief. I definitely don't think anyone should ever instill grief on anyone else, EVER.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

No one asked my opinion, but that has never stopped me before. So here we go:

It is not connected with departments. It is connected with some sick sick person geting in a position of power, and craving more more more.....

OK, that is a bit over the top.

But by golly, it may have something to do with that. If an organization is to function well, it must be peopled with functional people, not folks crazed with the quest for power.

Actually, I see more in units where nurses are disempowered. If someone is comfortable, staffed adequately and has good personnel, these problems are less common.

In the MS floors where there is consistantly understaffing, the personnel are treated poorly and management treats them crappy, you will see more difficult personalities.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

The problem with that is, the people who are most likely to be bullied and abused ARE the newbie nurses on the unit (and/or in the profession) that DON'T have the resources to fight back successfully - they haven't got a support system, the faith of the clinical director, friends in the hospital etc to defend them. They probably don't have the experience to land several job offers in a few weeks either.

I'm not buying into the idea that new graduate nurses are helpless victums who can't fight back sucessfully. They may loose a few battles along the way. I know as a new grad my skills in conflict resolutation (I was never bullied as a nurse) were lacking and are much improved now that I've been a nurse and a charge nurse for a long time.

If they have no resources inner and outer and come to this bulletin board and ask for what, what are we to say? We're going to say, get some backbone, get assertive, nip it in the budd, stand up for yourself. We're not going to be able to do that for them.

These things have to be developed I know. We can't give it to them or make their pain disappear, they have to step up to the plate themselves.

You're absoultely right that bullies target newbies and vulnerable people. Those are bullies. It's not a culture of nurses eating their young.

[rnin02]

1. If you expect professonal courtesy you need to get a backbone.

2. If you don't like being bullied, well, tough, you're a shrinking violet and don't belong in nursing.

3. If you paid your dues being eaten alive when you knew virtually nothing as a newbie and had no support or comfort zone, instead of helping others, it's your right to instill the same grief on them that you got.

I think you are misinterpreting. I especially don't agree with #3. I think people are basically saying there are alot of jerks out there, and when you work with someone for 12 hours at a strech, be prepared to see their bad side. At least that's how I'm interpreting things.

[RNtigerEMT]

Aawwwwww jeez!!!!!

I'm actually sort of torn here.

As a new grad in 2004, the M/S floor I started on was, and remains chronically understaffed/overworked/s#@^ on by mgmt, the whole nine yards. I did not allow myslef to be walked on. Not that type of person. Yes, there were "jerks", but you learn to deal with them. I stood up for myself, and in doing so earned a bad rep with mgmt as a trouble maker. Stayed there until laid off in Nov 2006. No tears on my part. The job needed done, I was there, I did what I could. I did try to transfer out, but was blocked by mgmt, because I am a strong nurse, and they needed us.

However, I recently started a new job in the ED in a different, small rural hospital. And they are gnawing at my heels every day. Not all of them, just a few. One day last week, I came home in tears, convinced I was not meant to be a nurse at all. My confidence was completely shattered. Did some serious thinking that day/evening and went back to work that night with a totally different attitude. I am good at what i do, and I will not let them ruin my dream for me. ( I was feeling rushed, I was being pulled out of orientation after less than 4 wks on the floor, no prior ED exp., new equip, new kid on the block syndrome, etc). I have not yet been back to work with the 2 nurses in particular that gnaw at me, but I am now confident that I can handle them.

To end. Yes there are jerks out there in every profession. Yes, it is said that nurses ETY. Yes, new hires/new grads are targets for the jerks. Do we have to put up with it? NO!!!!!

As other nurses on the unit notice the "torture" (real or percieved) speak up. Remind the exp nurse that they too were once new. Give the new grad/new hire a chance to speak up. As new grads/new hires, decide what you will and will not put up with. If the environment is truly that hostile, speak to your manager.

I'll go now before you all go to sleep

[dubstar]

GeekyRN

I agree with everything you have said. New Grads and student nurses can have a difficult time especially when they have no support. I have been there. My incident also happened on a med/surg ward. I was devastated for a couple of days but snapped out of it and thought that this idiot is not ruining my placement. I will be a better nurse instead,

But I do think that people do get caught up in their own little microcosm and need to step out of it for a little while, being nice costs nothing

pay it forward

[jjjoy, LPN]

I hear some peopls saying "Stop whining, suck it up and make it work." Would you treat your patients the same way? If a post-op patient is reluctant to do breathing exercises or ambulate because it hurts, do you automatically roll our eyes at them and tell them to suck it up? I'd think most nurses would patiently explain the importance of the activity. They'd encourage and reassure them. They'd set small, achievable goals and work up from there. There may be a few people who do respond well to an unsympathetic command to "suck it up" but it certainly won't be the first strategy.

Why not extend this kind of consideration and empathy to newbies who are feeling vulnerable and dependent upon sometimes actively unsupportive colleagues? A 'sink or swim' attitude would make more sense if we only needed a few nurses and wanted to quickly weed out those who show weakness. But we need many nurses. Thus I think we ought to help newbies develop that necessary backbone and thick skin by being supportive and not by chastising them when they feel intimidated and unsure of how to deal with strong, negative personalities. Just another 2 cents.

[NurseShelly]

I hear some peopls saying "Stop whining, suck it up and make it work." Would you treat your patients the same way? If a post-op patient is reluctant to do breathing exercises or ambulate because it hurts, do you automatically roll our eyes at them and tell them to suck it up? I'd think most nurses would patiently explain the importance of the activity. They'd encourage and reassure them. They'd set small, achievable goals and work up from there. There may be a few people who do respond well to an unsympathetic command to "suck it up" but it certainly won't be the first strategy.

Why not extend this kind of consideration and empathy to newbies who are feeling vulnerable and dependent upon sometimes actively unsupportive colleagues? A 'sink or swim' attitude would make more sense if we only needed a few nurses and wanted to quickly weed out those who show weakness. But we need many nurses. Thus I think we ought to help newbies develop that necessary backbone and thick skin by being supportive and not by chastising them when they feel intimidated and unsure of how to deal with strong, negative personalities. Just another 2 cents.

I agree with you 100%

[Cattitude]

I hear some peopls saying "Stop whining, suck it up and make it work." Would you treat your patients the same way? If a post-op patient is reluctant to do breathing exercises or ambulate because it hurts, do you automatically roll our eyes at them and tell them to suck it up? I'd think most nurses would patiently explain the importance of the activity. They'd encourage and reassure them. They'd set small, achievable goals and work up from there. There may be a few people who do respond well to an unsympathetic command to "suck it up" but it certainly won't be the first strategy.

Why not extend this kind of consideration and empathy to newbies who are feeling vulnerable and dependent upon sometimes actively unsupportive colleagues? A 'sink or swim' attitude would make more sense if we only needed a few nurses and wanted to quickly weed out those who show weakness. But we need many nurses. Thus I think we ought to help newbies develop that necessary backbone and thick skin by being supportive and not by chastising them when they feel intimidated and unsure of how to deal with strong, negative personalities. Just another 2 cents.

A. New nurses do not need to be treated like patients. Apples and oranges there. I think most of us do treat newbs with support but I doubt we have the time to "help them develop that necessary backbone" and such. They need to do that way before they become a nurse. That is part of becoming an adult.

B. Second point, yes newbs should feel supported and you know what? So do ALL nurses, even senior ones. Many, many times we don't get ANY support at all from management or administration yet we suck it up and push through. And after getting dumped on by everyone and receiving no support ourselves, most of us still manage to be decent to newbs. The few that aren't, suck, that is true but sometimes I get why.

Case in point- We've been short a nurse for 8 months, lately I've been about to snap, I'm so overwhelmed. My boss tells me to "deal with it". nice, huh? Yet I turn it around and still smile for my pt's.