Do nurses only "eat their young" in certain departments?

[HeartsOpenWide]

This semester we are on Med/Surg. At first I thought this "nurse eating young" thing was just something made up by overly sensitive students, until I floated to other departments. I have been is short stay, OR and the ICU and the nurses in there are SOOOOOOOOOOO nice compared to the nurses on M/S! One of the nurses in OR told me "I want the student nurses to enjoy their time in here so they will come and work here when they graduate". He spent tons of time with me; quizzing me a little things, showing me how to sterile gown-up, and told me the names of all the instruments he was setting up. In M/S however, I feel like I am a big pain in the orifice! I try at all cost not to bother the nurses in this department, but if I can not find my teacher and my client is in 9/10 pain an is allowed prn morphine and it is time (we need assistance/an observer) they sigh and act all put out. Its like, if I was not there there would be a number of other things they would have to add to their list of things to do because I am taking two of their five patients and doing everything for them (minus needing them or my teacher when available for I.V. push meds). I even say, "as soon as you get a chance can you watch me give such and such med".

Don't get me wrong, there are some that are nice, but the majority make me feel hated. The school tells us that students in the past have been hired as techs that have left an impression...but who would want to work with these people? Some even ignore you when you say good morning!

[anonymurse]

It seems that the way the work is shaped on a unit is a factor. Sometimes there is no way to get work done on the unit without teamwork. This could be demanded by frequent code situations. On a unit like this, eaters are gradually edged out of the picture because they make it hard for any nurse to meet their workplace survival needs.

However eaters can survive for years on MS units where a nurse has only minimal dependency on others, for instance only needing them to witness. On these units, the culture encourages the behavior because competition for scarce resources is the predominant factor that shapes the culture. Because resources are perpetually inadequate, an attitude of annoyance prevails, which can be easily exploited by the eater.

Eaters can shape little empires of evil in subtle ways. Information control is a prime method. A direct example is when the eater tells the manager they'll disseminate information about a change or new information, say a quickly-called meeting, then fails to inform victims while insisting they did.

It's also done indirectly. Example: the eater enlists the aid of a secretary by identifying themselves and cronies to the secretary as friends, and victims as those out to "get" the secretary. The secretary alerts them immediately to calls from doctors, and delays alerting victims by just enough to make the favored ones look good and the victims look bad.

Eaters don't limit themselves to the young. They kill everyone they perceive as a threat to their dominance, imagined or real. The only reason "young" are more visible to us as victims is their extreme vulnerability. They can't see it coming. They naively assist in their own assassinations. They are so much in need of information that information denial is particularly fatal to them. Another reason we perceive it as "eating their young" and not "eating everyone" is that eaters don't take care to disguise their workings too thoroughly when they eat the young.

When a truly great nurse leader is assassinated, frequently no one knows the source, or even the exact circumstances and rationales. These career enders are the eaters' true unsigned masterpieces. However if the eaters were unmasked and booted as soon as they were seen to eat a youngster, they'd never get the chance to execute a masterpiece.

The best defense against eaters is a manager who won't tolerate them and who builds a culture that rewards teamwork and celebrates individuality. So when considering a new unit, turn your job interview into your own interview of the manager.

There's no way to know whether an assignment is rife with eaters without observing closely, so it's just as important to hang out on a prospective unit and see if people exhibit fear or confidence. Spend some time shadowing. I believe you should spend as much time and thought buying a new job as you would buying a new house.

The best way for a new grad to get eaten is to be desperate to get hired onto a certain kind of unit, instead of shopping for a first unit based on whether it's going to be a nurturing, career-safe environment for them.

My 2 cents.

[PCUSheryl]

I remember thinking the same things about nurses when I was in clinicals. At lunch all the student nurses would gather and talk about each of their preceptors. There were lots of negative things said. And I actually remember feeling that way about certain nurses my first year as a new nurse. But the longer you're a nurse, the more you will realize that generally when a nurse is acting in a manner not so friendly or not as patient as is desired, then either A) They're not a friendly or patient person, or B) They are overwhelmed with things to do and not enough time to do it. Usually B. is the case. I have more compassion and patience for nurses now than when I was a new nurse.

One day, you'll be that nurse who is juggling 20 things in her head (and hands), dealing with disgruntled patients and families, trying to please them, dealing with doctors that can be demanding on good days and downright mean and cruel on others, critically thinking about the pathophysiology of all of your patients, answering call lights, trying to check off that checklist of things that must be done before 2pm (or whenever) like checking blood sugars, giving all meds at correct times, doing chart audits, carrying out all orders written on your shift, etc. I could go on and on. And you will understand what it feels like when that bright and well-meaning student asks for your help politely and you are all the while wanting to be able to teach them, monitor and supervise them, and feeling helpless, because you have 5 other things that REALLY ARE more of a priority at that moment. You will one day understand that the ability to complete all those tasks and and maintain a positive and pleasant attitude at least 90% of the time is a learned skill, but it's only for the ones who are determined to rise above and be that strong and confident nurse that is so in need! Before you become that nurse, you most certainly will fail at times. Hopefully you'll learn from your mistakes.

Who knows, that nurse or nurses who, (I won't repeat that horrid phrase) were not pleased to have you on their unit, may have been on their 3rd or 4th 12-hr shift and having a terrible day. Or who knows what may be going on at home?

To encourage you, I think generally most nurses know how badly we need more nurses and desire to be good preceptors and mentor and teach new nurses. We want to encourage you, prepare you, because we need you. If you come across a nurse with a bad attitude every now and then, don't take it personally. Don't let it discourage you, and determine that you're not going to act like that when you're in their position. I hope this helps.

[Cattitude]

so, what i'm trying to say in this increasingly long post is that generalizations and stereotypes very seldom represent reality. nurses do not eat their young. instead, jerks are jerks to most everyone who crosses their path (some bullies will back off if you confront them - but they're generally still jerks). nice people will be nice, whether you are a student, a new grad, or a nurse with 30 years of experience. some women will be catty and gossip. some men will be catty and gossip. it depends on the individual attitudes of the people involved and nothing else.

i totally agree. i guess this is why i feel that "young eating" doesn't exist in the numbers that some others feel it does. it all depends on your definition! i don't think that being a jerk classifies you as "eating young", i think it just makes you a jerk.

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[color=#483d8b]to me, eating their young means someone goes out of their way to make someone's time on the clock miserable. it means trying to drive them away from that place of employment/unit/profession.

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[color=#483d8b]i think if a senior nurse is having a rotten day and doesn't smile at a newb or maybe takes a short tone with them, to some they classify that as "eating young". i don't agree.

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[color=#483d8b]as rn4nicu says, jerks are jerks to everyone. not just to newbie nurses. they probably go home and are miserable there too!

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[Cattitude]

Hello,

I agree, the phrase perpetuates the concept which is so easily misunderstood and applied inappropriately.

If we all "say" the phrase in unison it will still not simply make it apply wherever we want.

Edit to clarify...it will not apply to any nurse who is tired or busy or not in the mood to precept that day, nor will it apply to any nurse who...as a regular person...may have a personality that doesn't necessarily combine nicely with yours, just because someone want to throw the "eating-card" out there.

Gen-not buying it anymore

I heart Gen :kiss . You will be a great addition to this profession. You just make so much sense!

[GeekyRN]

I won't say ETY to go along with the consensus that it should be abandoned (remember lots of people LOVE to label us as a bunch of catty women no matter what we do, so let's not help them).

However, I had an awful experience in nursing school and as a SNE at ICU.

I am a second career nurse (and since my first profession is computer science I'm pretty sure I'm not a moron) but I was about the only one in my nursing class who hadn't worked in a hospital as a pharm tech, PSP, or whatever. So after my first semester in med/surg I decided to work as a SNE so I wouldn't have the overhead of having to learn everything from GO while at the same ime being responsible for all that happened as an RN.

Being a scientific sort I really really wanted to work in critical care. I got a summer SNE job where only once a week they let me work Saturday nights. Not sure what I was supposed to learn emptying foleys once a week for six weeks, and NOBODY gave me an orienation or would teach me ANYTHING. Rather they all seemed to enjoy trashing me and this "new nurse doesn't know anything, ad nauseum) and I was somehow an idiot because I didn't perform like an ICU nurse with years of experience from the go. (imagine that). And it's true I didn't know much at the time, but that's what I was there for for Godsake. Anyway, so I ended up having to go to another uni when I graduated and of course that really turned me off of ICU at least at the hospital where I work.

While it was a God-awful experience, as it is I really feel sorry for them now. As a second-career nurse, my kids are past an age where I have to be home or have my schedule controlled by them. My husband travels so my shcedule was entirely flexible. By now they'd have someone fully trained and oriented if they'd been willing to invest even a modicum of effort into bringing me up to speed instead of depriving themselves of the fun of thumping me on the head.

And considering I get more cards and compliments from patients than anyone else even on my unit which is famous in the hospital for patients rating us highly, I really feel they lost a good thing and I turned out to be a pretty darned good nurse.

but I feel angry about it still. And I'm angry that I'm not working in critical care where I wanted to be and I feel like these awful people are going to keep me from ever going back there.

[GeekyRN]

You're welcome I apologize if you felt made fun of.

Seriously I wish you well. Unfortunately what was said above is true, it's not for the weak, the timid, or the sensitive. You need thick skin the same way a doctor, lawyer, or businessperson needs thick skin. Patients, families, doctors, supervisors, and yes even peers are going to challenge you every day. You need to develop the skills necessary to deal with these people. We can help.

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I don't disagree and will definitely take you up on your offer but truthfully that quoted piece rubs me a little wrong too. People who ETY or in otherwords are unaccountable for the hostility and misery they cause others, whatever you want to call it is costing the profession and the country a LOT of productivity. (As I mentioned in my story earlier, for example, ICU lost what was going to be one hell of an RN)

The answer isn't just to tell everyone to develop thicker skin and love it or leave it because a lot of talent and great potential talent is going to say fine, I'll leave it. (the thought has occured to me once or twice myself).

There's a great new bestseller getting five star reviews out now by Robert Sutton called "The No A**Hole Rule" which is meticulously researched and basically is all about how workplace bullies destroy morale and cost astronomical amounts of dollars in talent and productivity.

I personally think it's must reading for every clinical manager, director and preferably every physician and RN.

[NurseShelly]

IThere's a great new bestseller getting five star reviews out now by Robert Sutton called "The No A**Hole Rule" which is meticulously researched and basically is all about how workplace bullies destroy morale and cost astronomical amounts of dollars in talent and productivity.

I personally think it's must reading for every clinical manager, director and preferably every physician and RN.

I agree with GeekyRN. I've only just started reading this book, and I would recommend it to anyone who has ever been, or currently finds themselves in a situation where they feel they're being bullied or disrespected in some way. From what I've read so far, book does two things, 1) shares stories of others who have been mistreated helping you see you're not alone and 2) the reader will see that mean and nasty people infect every profession, not just nursing. To the OP, some people are mean for the sake of being mean, and others may just be stressed out, and might not realize how they come across. I know that doesn't make it right, but you'll find that some of these people are in every department and every hospital. I hope your experience is much better from here on. I know that clinicals can be tough enough without having to deal with rudeness, just hang in there. Good luck!

[JennieO]

One way to end the eating of the young is to casually mention that you feel "harrassed in the workplace". Hmmm.....

[SICU Queen]

Thank you. My intent was not to be made fun of. If it continues feel free to erase this thread completely, if its possible. Gee-sh! This is why I am timid to ask nurses for help...perfect example here!!

The contents of this thread are enough to make you feel like you can't ask for help?? RIDICULOUS. Yes, there have been comments by some posters regarding your use of a very over-used phrase, and yes, they were made in jest... but you've also gotten some excellent pointers and advice.

Timidity has no place in nursing. You can't advocate for yourself, or your patients, if you don't have the gumption to speak up. My advice to you? Grow a backbone, and quickly.

[kanzi monkey]

Thank you. My intent was not to be made fun of. If it continues feel free to erase this thread completely, if its possible. Gee-sh! This is why I am timid to ask nurses for help...perfect example here!!

no kidding! You may find some useful insight into this issue if you google "nurses" and "lateral violence." You can try "horizontal violence" as well. There have been some pretty interesting studies regarding this issue.

Good luck!

-Kan

[TrudyRN]

Unfortunately, young are eaten anywhere and everywhere.

Just serve your sentence, try to understand the working conditions the M/S nurses are in, then get out. Or hire on and try to make it better.

Sorry you are having a hard time but it will end soon.

[NurseShelly]

no kidding! You may find some useful insight into this issue if you google "nurses" and "lateral violence." You can try "horizontal violence" as well. There have been some pretty interesting studies regarding this issue.

Good luck!

I just went and read some of the articles on nurses and lateral violence. They're very informative. I would love to see some of the info on lateral violence implemented into nursing schools and into programs for employed nurses both and new.