Hey guys, so I'm currently going to school in Hawai'i (pre-nursing), and was rejected this past year to the nursing program. The school is facing budget cuts and so all things considered, I wanted to transfer back to southern California (which is where I live), and a lot of the schools I am looking at are the smaller, private Christian schools such as Mt. Saint Mary's, Cal Baptist, Azusa Pacific, etc. I was just wondering if any of you know of anyone getting their BSN from any of these schools? I am a little frustrated and concerned right now about attending these schools, because I am gay, and people have told me that I will not be admitted/kicked out if the school finds out about my sexual orientation. Obviously, I don't want to be in an environment where I cannot be myself or where I don't feel safe, so this is a concern to me . I hoped maybe you all could share some information about this. What are your thoughts?
Sexual orientation isn't yet protected by federal law. Many states also do not include orientation in anti discrimination laws. In fact, while gay marriage has been legal in my state for over a year, we can still be discriminated against in employment, housing, etc.
I "liked" your response even though I didn't like your response if that makes sense. I guess I shouldn't find it shocking that this kind of open discrimination is still considered OK, but somehow I do.
And most likely, when sexual orientation is included in federal non-discrimination laws (which I do think will happen sooner rather than later) I believe that religious organizations will be exempt.
A private, Christian school can admit who they want and decide whether or not they want a moral clause. A state school on the other hand, cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation. There's a big difference there. Anything that receives government money cannot discriminate. That is why most Christian colleges are private and are so expensive. There is one here locally. It costs somewhere around $25k a semester to go there.
I hired a lot of these kids part time seasonal during the school year to work in retail. One ended up becoming a good friend of mine. He was Catholic though and this college was Church of God. The difference in beliefs was huge. They were not allowed to drink, dance, listen to certain types of music, boys and girls were separated and RAs checked the rooms each night to ensure nobody of the opposite sex was in the dorm, and I'm pretty sure being gay fell under their moral code also. Catholics drink. Especially on Fat Tuesday which is the start of Mardi Gras and the season of Lent. I grew up in a Lutheren church which is just slightly different from Catholicism and we had actual wine with communion as did all of the Catholic Churches. It was just a tiny sip but we had it every week. Well, my friend and I went out to celebrate Fat Tuesday and someone spotted him and turned him in. He was in his last semester and they were not going to let him graduate. It was a big thing. I don't know how they worked it out but he did end up graduating but had a big target on him the rest of the semester. Several people I know have also had wedding receptions there. No music and no alcohol. Not very fun receptions in my opinion.
One of the most ironic things though is that I hired this girl her freshman year. She lived in town so worked for me all year. One of the best employees I ever had and worked at this store for many years. She had a huge secret though that none of us knew about and it was that she was a lesbian. It would have never mattered with me, but I know she had to keep it quiet so any of her fellow classmates that also worked at the store would not rat her out. I found out a few years ago that she was indeed a lesbian and had a partner. I looked her up on Facebook and we became friends on there. She asked her girlfriend to marry her earlier this year and they have a 3 year old little boy together. I'm so happy for them. They've been together for 10 years and are very much in love. But she kept her sexual orientation on the down low the whole time, which I can understand.
I think if it's important for the OP to go to a Christian school whether it's due to his own beliefs or the fact that these schools have an excellent academic education that he wants, he will need to not broadcast his sexual orientation. But if it were me, I would look at going to a more accepting community college or state university. That way he can be himself and not worry about retribution or the heartache that would ensue from being discriminated against. Some christian people do discriminate and while that may not be right, it is a fact of life. I would just want to be somewhere that I was wanted and could be myself. Covering up who you truly are is not healthy.
You have your choice of state and secular schools to attend. Christians pay taxes to support these institutions like everyone else. Tolerance cuts both ways. If you force people to allow activities they disapprove of on their campuses, you are being intolerant. Taken to extremes, it can cross into religious persecution - something which is outlawed in the First Amendment. Whether you believe it or not, these strict colleges and their donors believe that God disapproves of sexual behavior outside of one man / one woman marriage. They are not singling out homosexual relationships, they are defining what they see as acceptable given their deeply-held beliefs and convictions about life and love and expecting their students to uphold those standards if they agree to admit them. No one is forcing anyone to apply there. Live and let live, I say.
The Catholic university in my area, Notre Dame, does not discriminate against sexual orientation. Not all of them do. That being said, heavily research the schools' websites to be sure.
Large Jesuit universities, like Notre Dame and my alma mater, are kind of in a different class than, say, Bob Jones University or BYU. There are some small Christian colleges that consider themselves religious institutions first, institutions of higher learning second. To me, all going to a Jesuit university meant was that I had to take Philosophy and Theology courses as part of my core curriculum. There were officially some "Catholic" rules- like no cohabitation was allowed (between homosexual or heterosexual couples alike) and the staff of the health center was officially not allowed to discuss birth control options or options for the termination of pregnancy. The nursing school was in a different world. Condoms may have officially not been allowed on campus but several of my classmates and I solicited donations of them from Planned Parenthood and donated them, in the school's name, to a local health clinic in Nicaragua where we did our community clinical. In fact, a criteria for being selected to this program to do clinical abroad was not having any religious beliefs that would prevent you from educating clients on birth control. Ironic for a Catholic university, huh?
My university actually has come a long way since I was there too. When I entered my freshman year, Allies had just gained recognition as an official club on campus. During my time there, a GLBT leadership council formed as a division of the undergraduate government. Also during my time, this council tried to have a dance, welcoming to all, to raise money for a local HIV/AIDS charity. Shortly before the dance was scheduled to take place, the Administration canceled it d/t it "not being in line with Catholic values." Protesting that decision and dancing in the snow in the middle of campus remains one of my favorite memories from college. That dance has now been happening for many years.
OP, I agree to research your prospective school choices heavily.
Wow am I naive! I was about to answer that while attending a conservative college might not be the most comfortable environment for a gay student that expulsion certainly shouldn't be a concern. Then I read some of the responses and was educated that it is indeed a possibility depending on the moral clauses of the school.
My question to those that are aware of these moral clauses; how is this even legal?
Separation of church and state. These colleges claim to be religious institutions and, therefore, to be exempt from any non-discrimination laws as it relates to GLBT students/faculty. If they receive federal or state funds (which many do) I find that to be BS.
Actually, my alma mater's non-discrimination clause was a matter of contention during my time there as well. It read something like "We do not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, age, national and ethnic origin, religion, disabilities, marital or parental status, veteran status or personal history." And then there was a separate sentence that basically said "As a Catholic university we are exempt from state laws re: non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation but we do comply with that law."
So, in short, religious colleges and universities are technically exempt from non-discrimination laws that say that one can't be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation. As an example, many a gay teacher at a Catholic elementary or secondary school has been fired after getting married. Federally, there is no law protecting GLBT citizens from discrimination though.
Personally, if I were in your position, I would be reluctant to enroll in a school that didn't have some kind of LGBT office or club. But I know I need writing and research support and would not enroll anywhere that didn't offer that in a strong way either. There are a lot of components to finding the right fit. Best wishes.
I think that these nursing schools would be open-minded than what you expect or think about them. Most private religious based schools have LGBT organizations. Also, the nursing and medical field deals with ALL types of people. I bet the teachers there (who are also nurses) have dealt with their fair share of alcoholics, child/teen pregnancy, gay people, and of course, their annoying co-worker.
If you have "specific" stories about these private schools, maybe you should investigate more or just move on to another school.
I specifically did not bother looking into private for-profit nursing schools like the ones advertised a lot, such as University of Phoenix, etc. because I just personally feel like my education is not a first priority compared to the school's profit.
Do what you think is the right thing is. You'll make a lot of hard decisions in nursing school and this is just the start of it, so you gotta get used to it.
I think that these nursing schools would be open-minded than what you expect or think about them. Most private religious based schools have LGBT organizations. Also, the nursing and medical field deals with ALL types of people. I bet the teachers there (who are also nurses) have dealt with their fair share of alcoholics, child/teen pregnancy, gay people, and of course, their annoying co-worker.
If you have "specific" stories about these private schools, maybe you should investigate more or just move on to another school.
I specifically did not bother looking into private for-profit nursing schools like the ones advertised a lot, such as University of Phoenix, etc. because I just personally feel like my education is not a first priority compared to the school's profit.
Do what you think is the right thing is. You'll make a lot of hard decisions in nursing school and this is just the start of it, so you gotta get used to it.
I'm genuinely curious, could you provide an example of a deeply religious college that had LGBT clubs? I've just never heard of that before.
My brother was seen by another students parent buying alcohol at a convenience store his senior year in college (he was 22 ) he was written up, put on final warning, and had to walk a fine line until graduation. He signed the contract so he had to abide by it. Choose wisely. I understand that it can suck but it sucks more when people knowingly sign up and then want the school/organization to change just to accommodate them. Some parents send their kids to those schools for a reason and its their right. Especially at those prices.
Specializes in Family Medicine, Tele/Cardiac, Camp.
I think it's mostly important that you see what the school's policy is. My MSN program was at a private Catholic College and while I didn't feel 100% completely comfortable all the time, they had a GLBT alliance and no overt discrimination policy. I can't remember if the "does not discriminate against sexual orientation" thing was included in their anti-discrimination policy, but I felt safe going there.
I also really enjoyed doing the bulk of my research on GLBT issues in nursing and educating my fellow classmates and even professors. Best of luck.
I went through something similar, but I actually called and asked, then took a tour to get a feel of the campus and faculty (most schools have open houses), My school also receives federal aid so they get money from the government. I met class mates and even employees that were apart of the LGBTQ Community... I think you have to bite the bullet and ask them flat out. The only rules pertaining to sex were under the student housing rules and that does not pertain to me as I will not be living on campus. The attitude with some schools are changing, especially with them being more expensive and students not wanting to incur a ton of costs for their degree. No one has ever asked me personal questions about my sexuality... I also have not signed any contracts of any kind. You're going to have to research and simply ask. Don't waste your time worrying, just investigate and make the best decision for you.
. I hoped maybe you all could share some information about this. What are your thoughts?
kbrn2002, ADN, RN
3,969 Posts
I "liked" your response even though I didn't like your response if that makes sense. I guess I shouldn't find it shocking that this kind of open discrimination is still considered OK, but somehow I do.