So this is my first year in college, and I signed up for general ed classes at my local community college. In the middle of the semester, I decided I wanted to be a nurse, but unfortunately I didn't take Chemistry or anything this current semester!
Because of Anatomy 1 & 2, I'll be stuck until next winter. (Since nursing app req/deadlines are due May 1st this year, and they only offer nursing school that starts in the fall.) So basically, it'll take me 4 years just to get an associates! Has this happened to any of you? I mean, next year, I'll only really need to take Anatomy 1 & 2, so that'd be 4 credits a semester, but my dad wants me to go fulltime to be on his insurance. Does anyone know if there's a way to be 'dual enrolled?' For example, can I start nursing school even though it requires me to have completed Anatomy?
I was not bashing the quality of ADN graduates at all. In fact, I was saying that they are almost as educated as BSN's. That's my whole criticism.
The Associate's Degree was created as a degree that should take 4 total semesters of full time study to complete -- providing a shorter, less expensive way to qualify for entry-level RN jobs. ADN grads wanting career advanciment and/or other opportunities were "supposed" to get BSN's. However, over the years, the ADN schools have added so many extra requirements that the gap between an ADN and a BSN has narrowed significantly. That defeats the original purpose of the degree and causes confusion over the actual distinction between the enty levels. The confusion and big overlap between the 2 types of degrees also causes tension between ADN and BSN graduates over levels of preparation and career opportunities available for BSN's that aren't available for ADN's. The hospital diploma programs try to position themselves in between the ADN and the BSN and that confuses the situation even further.
The people who should be most upset by the current state of affairs should be the ADN students and graduates themselves. They do the work and pay the bills of a 3-year full time education -- but in the end, they only have an Associate's Degree (considered a "2-year degree" by most people) and must go back to school and pay more money for a BSN if they want more career options. They should be insisting that ADN programs go back to their original focus of preparing enty-level nurses in 4 full-time semesters.
Of course ... any program can take forever if you are only taking 1 or 2 courses at a time. In comparing "apples to apples," I am looking at full time student progression.
I have nothing against the ADN but the truth is the truth and unless you are in a private 2 year program it does not take 2 or 2.5 years to complete the ADN program at most CCs.
You are made to believe that the pre-clinical sequence should only take one semester and the clinical will be completed in 2 years.
I'm not bashing CCs by stating what is merely the truth...you CANNOT finish in 2.5 years, it's not happening. I think that most students who enroll in CCs as pre-nursing students do not understand this and if they did they might make different choices.
Some people don't care how long they go to school but some people go the ADN route because they do not want to wait 4 years to start their nursing career. Well maybe it they knew up front that they will be in school for almost 4 years anyway they would choose differently is all that I am saying.
At a CC, the ADN is set up for 2 years. You do your pre-reqs (A&P, PSY, etc) at the same time you are doing your nursing core courses. It is actually a much more intense program. Most people are not able to do this, therefore they take another year or two to spread these courses out. You need to check out the requirements and time table for the ADN or BSN at the college of your choice.
If the program is too intense to be done in the advertised alloted time then all pre-nursing students should be informed of this before they enroll.
That is what my problem is....students are looking at websites and brochures and thinking...Why should I go to a 4 year program when I can come out in 2 years and get the same job for almost the same money?
At a CC, the ADN is set up for 2 years. You do your pre-reqs (A&P, PSY, etc) at the same time you are doing your nursing core courses. It is actually a much more intense program. Most people are not able to do this, therefore they take another year or two to spread these courses out. You need to check out the requirements and time table for the ADN or BSN at the college of your choice.
I almost went to an ADN program. I tink that what has happened to prerequisites is ok but students should be prepared to "do what it takes" to get their prerequisites completed during summer sessions or whatever. Because of limited training seats etc I think that many schools have in effect adopted a finish your prerequisites first rule prior to acceptance/starting nursing school. This is how a 2 year program has been turned into a 3 year program.
In general I would go where you have to go to get A/P done. As long as the credits are from an accredited school transferability should not be a problem. I went to a CC for a quarter to pick up Physiology and Micro. I had to commute 400 miles a week for a quarter but it was well worth the time to get the courses done in a time efficient maner.
I also agree with taking additional coursework towards a Bachelors degree as it can only benefit you down the road.
So this is my first year in college, and I signed up for general ed classes at my local community college. In the middle of the semester, I decided I wanted to be a nurse, but unfortunately I didn't take Chemistry or anything this current semester!
Because of Anatomy 1 & 2, I'll be stuck until next winter. (Since nursing app req/deadlines are due May 1st this year, and they only offer nursing school that starts in the fall.) So basically, it'll take me 4 years just to get an associates! Has this happened to any of you? I mean, next year, I'll only really need to take Anatomy 1 & 2, so that'd be 4 credits a semester, but my dad wants me to go fulltime to be on his insurance. Does anyone know if there's a way to be 'dual enrolled?' For example, can I start nursing school even though it requires me to have completed Anatomy?
It took me a total of 4 years to get my ADN. I graduated in 1989. I didn't have a waiting list to get in. You need to decide if you really want a BSN and why. You will get paid the same as a bedside nurse, but you will have a huge loan after a BSN degree.
Also ... I think this trend is one of the most scandalous things in nursing today. As ADN programs have tried to "upgrade" their prograsm so that they can be considered "equal to" a BSN, they have added so many course requirements and hoops to jump through that it takes as long (or almost as long) as getting a BSN. Then the ADN graduate has to go back to school to get a BSN to qualify for the broader career opportunities that she will want in a few years. Rather than maintain a difference between the 2 entry levels of nursing by making the ADN requirements less and acknowledge a difference in the preparation of their graduates, some ADN programs have continually added content and requirements to their programs so that they can say they are "equal to" a BSN at the expense of their students. I think it is both an ego thing and a money thing.
Any way you look at it, it's a rip-off ... and the people who benefit are the Community Colleges who collect the money from the ADN students. ADN students and graduates should be angry about this, but most seem more proud of how rigorous their education was rather than angry that their "2-year Associate's Degree" took 3 or 4 years and a lot more money than other "2-year Associate's Degrees."
Before starting on a 4-year plan to get an ADN ... look long and hard at getting a BSN to begin with. It might mean taking out a student loan, etc. but that's not the end of the world. In the end, you may end up ahead as you will be further along in your professional career at a younger age. Many ADN grads plan to go back to school for their BSN's, but have trouble actually doing that later as they acquire financial responsibilities, families to support, etc. and get used to not being a student anymore.
If a BSN is really not possible for you, and you HAVE to do the 4-year ADN, use the time wisely and get an Associate's Degree along the way in something else that interest's you so that you can either incorporate it into your nursing career later (such as business, or IT, or psychology, etc.) or be started towards another career that would interest you in case nursing doesn't work out for you.
Also explore the options of taking some of those requirements at other schools in your area and/or online. Talk with the ADN program and see what courses they would accept as substitutes for the ones they offer.
Edit: As I was typing my rather long response, other posters have added to this thread. I am happy to see that other people are beginning to speak up on the lunacy of spending 4 years in school (full time or nearly full time) to get an Associate's Degree.
Good luck.
I have to say I am happy with my ADN education. It gave me what I needed to be a bedside nurse. I make the same money as my co-workers who have a BSN. I don't want to be in management or anything else that might require a BSN, so I know I chose the right path for my nursing degree.
You will get paid the same as a bedside nurse, but you will have a huge loan after a BSN degree.
My community college education was great.
I believe this to be a bit of a generalization. There are many state schools that offer BSN programs for a bit more than the cost of an ADN program. There are always many alternatives to get the money you need for a BSN education, and if an individual feels that acquiring that level of education is warranted for their goals, than a "huge loan" or not should not stop them from their future.
At a CC, the ADN is set up for 2 years. You do your pre-reqs (A&P, PSY, etc) at the same time you are doing your nursing core courses. It is actually a much more intense program. Most people are not able to do this, therefore they take another year or two to spread these courses out. You need to check out the requirements and time table for the ADN or BSN at the college of your choice.
Actually, that's not true anymore at a lot of Community Colleges. That's the way it was supposed to be, but a lot of schools now require that you take prerequisite course prior to even applying to the nursing program. If you are accepted into the nursing program (which may involve a waiting list), the required nursing courses require 4 additional semesters to complete because they must be taken in sequence.
That's what some of us feel is very wrong. Even the best student going full time can not possibly compete the program in 2 years -- and if there is a waiting list for the nursing courses, it can easily take 4 years.
Some schools even encourage their waiting nursing students to take extra classes and to retake classes to boost their GPA's in hopes of being moved up the waiting lists -- in the meantime, collecting the tuition money all the while.
actually, that's not true anymore at a lot of community colleges. that's the way it was supposed to be, but a lot of schools now require that you take prerequisite course prior to even applying to the nursing program. if you are accepted into the nursing program (which may involve a waiting list), the required nursing courses require 4 additional semesters to complete because they must be taken in sequence.
the above is exactly what has happened to all of the ccs in my area. they will not let you take any of your pre-reqs with your nursing classes...you gotta do them all before you can apply for a seat. this makes a 2 year program a 3 or 4 year.
that's what some of us feel is very wrong. even the best student going full time can not possibly compete the program in 2 years -- and if there is a waiting list for the nursing courses, it can easily take 4 years.
exactly, it wasn't about bashing adns or debating which degree is better. it's about people being mis-lead.
some schools even encourage their waiting nursing students to take extra classes and to retake classes to boost their gpa's in hopes of being moved up the waiting lists -- in the meantime, collecting the tuition money all the while.
yep, this is another typical tactic around these parts. at the cc i went to when i first decided to pursue nursing there were 900 pre-nursing students for 40 seats. i mean what where my chances? if i had known before i enrolled i wouldn't have wasted my time at that school.
yes, this is what i was trying to say from the start. i was trying to quote and respond but i kept hitting the thank you button instead.
i take that as a sign that i need to get off of allnurses and do my schoolwork.
i almost went to one of the ccs in my area. one school i called told me that i needed to take 4 classes before starting clinicals...not all schools tell you that you have pre-reqs to take before the pre-reqs req'd for the program, then appliy to the program with no guarantees of getting in...when i went to the websites, and read the requirements, that when i found out that completing the pre-reqs didn't mean you could get into clinicals. i am currently in a bsn program (it will only take me three years to complete since i already have a bach degee)...yes, i will have a a large loan amount to repay, but at least in the time it would have taken for me to take pre-reqs, then wait to get into the program, i will have my bsn which was my ultimate goal anyway
yep, this is another typical tactic around these parts. at the cc i went to when i first decided to pursue nursing there were 900 pre-nursing students for 40 seats. i mean what where my chances? if i had known before i enrolled i wouldn't have wasted my time at that school.
yes, this is what i was trying to say from the start. i was trying to quote and respond but i kept hitting the thank you button instead.
i take that as a sign that i need to get off of allnurses and do my schoolwork.
It took me 8 years to get my two year degree. I started at one CC back home...took almost all the prereqs...then I got incorrect info from the Tech College here stating I could get right into the nursing program so I moved only to find out the latter was not true...took me almost a year to get my financial aid straight and going here.. and 2 more years to do their prereqs (they wouldnt transfer everything I had taken at home) but I finally made it and graduated last August (2006).
So this is my first year in college, and I signed up for general ed classes at my local community college. In the middle of the semester, I decided I wanted to be a nurse, but unfortunately I didn't take Chemistry or anything this current semester!
Because of Anatomy 1 & 2, I'll be stuck until next winter. (Since nursing app req/deadlines are due May 1st this year, and they only offer nursing school that starts in the fall.) So basically, it'll take me 4 years just to get an associates! Has this happened to any of you? I mean, next year, I'll only really need to take Anatomy 1 & 2, so that'd be 4 credits a semester, but my dad wants me to go fulltime to be on his insurance. Does anyone know if there's a way to be 'dual enrolled?' For example, can I start nursing school even though it requires me to have completed Anatomy?
Yup, thats not unusual at all. I'll have taken 4 yrs for my ASN. Good luck!
llg, PhD, RN
13,469 Posts
I was not bashing the quality of ADN graduates at all. In fact, I was saying that they are almost as educated as BSN's. That's my whole criticism.
The Associate's Degree was created as a degree that should take 4 total semesters of full time study to complete -- providing a shorter, less expensive way to qualify for entry-level RN jobs. ADN grads wanting career advanciment and/or other opportunities were "supposed" to get BSN's. However, over the years, the ADN schools have added so many extra requirements that the gap between an ADN and a BSN has narrowed significantly. That defeats the original purpose of the degree and causes confusion over the actual distinction between the enty levels. The confusion and big overlap between the 2 types of degrees also causes tension between ADN and BSN graduates over levels of preparation and career opportunities available for BSN's that aren't available for ADN's. The hospital diploma programs try to position themselves in between the ADN and the BSN and that confuses the situation even further.
The people who should be most upset by the current state of affairs should be the ADN students and graduates themselves. They do the work and pay the bills of a 3-year full time education -- but in the end, they only have an Associate's Degree (considered a "2-year degree" by most people) and must go back to school and pay more money for a BSN if they want more career options. They should be insisting that ADN programs go back to their original focus of preparing enty-level nurses in 4 full-time semesters.
Of course ... any program can take forever if you are only taking 1 or 2 courses at a time. In comparing "apples to apples," I am looking at full time student progression.